Jons Parentage Revealed

[#Fire and Blood]

we will find out when bran does, through the weirwoods. jon will find out from the reeds and the realm will learn it when varys reveals ned stark's final letter.

what are you referring to when you say Ned Starks letter?

[Imjustababydirewolf]

we will find out when bran does, through the weirwoods. jon will find out from the reeds and the realm will learn it when varys reveals ned stark's final letter.

Missing the "like" button right now.

[Philwinklo]

My problem with most of these explanations is that the issue is far more interesting to us as readers than it is to most of the characters. No one knows about his warging and neither we nor any of the characters have seen any targ powers. I argue that no one will reveal anything to Jon - and certainly not pursue him to make the reveal - until he starts showing signs of being special or rallying people around him.

So:

• The Reeds all seem like long shots to be the ones to reveal the truth, at least to Jon. They just don't have much interest in pushing for anyone politically.
  
• There won't be any urgency for Bran and Bloodraven to reveal Jon's parentage for the same reason. It is possible that he will be confused by his powers, think aloud under a weirwood and have the conversation but it doesn't seem the most likely scenario to me.
  
• If Benjen surfaces, it will be north of the wall - perhaps very far north. He will no doubt be more concerned with the threats from the others than of politics in the seven kingdoms. He will probably be compelled to reveal Jon's parentage if Jon starts showing Targ abilities and seeks explanation,
  
• On the other hand, if Jon leads well in a fight against the others and Varys has the letter, then Varys would definitely be inclined to reveal the information to push toward another Targaryan kingship.
  
• Similarly, anyone else who may know about Jon's parentage and is participating in the political power game may be eager to tell him if he proves powerful personally or as a leader. This includes the Daynes, JonCon, or someone in Daenerys's camp.
  

My guess is that Jon's survival will have to do with his inherited powers and he will rally the troops at the wall in the fight against the others, at which point one of the politically-minded characters will reveal the truth.

[Montey14]

What letter did Ned give varys ....there was no mention of him giving Varys a letter in the first book....and why would he trust varys with such important information. He wouldn't even tell his wife or good friends....I find it hard to believe he would tell the spider of such news. It has to be Howland .....he is the only one anyone could believe being that he was there at the battle. The only other person I could see is Bran....but who would belive a 10 year old boy saw Neds confessions through a wierwood tree....It would be a little hard to swallow.....I see no other way ....it has to be Reed.

[Erls]

I could see us finding out through two ways:

1- Reed finally shows up and tells what happened at the Tower of Joy.

2- Bran, while viewing past events through the Winterfell Weirwood, sees Eddard confessing/spilling to the Ancient Gods about what happened that day at the Tower of Joy, and how the lie he has lived since.

My money, personally, is on Bran being the first to inform the reader, while Reed is the first to inform the characters.

[darksellsword]

The more i read GOT over and over the more im convinced Eddard Stark is not dead or will return . He is the one person we

know for certain could verify who Jons parents were and also support his claim. He is also a Witness to baby Aegon being truely dead.

The part were Varys is in the tunnels with Eddard and he jokes about slitting his throat and hiding him behind the walls and if

Catlyn is not in kings landing then there must be an excellent imposter there. If Varys didnt replace him and hold him prisoner

somewhere else because Eddard knew the truth about Aegon, then i believe the other possibility will be Eddard appearing to Jon in a dream and telling him the truth.

[lady m]

[*]On the other hand, if Jon leads well in a fight against the others and Varys has the letter, then Varys would definitely be inclined to reveal the information to push toward another Targaryan kingship.

That assumes he's really looking for a Targ restoration, and that Aegon is a Targ, not a Blackfyre. He & Illyrio thought Dany and/or Viserys would die with the Dothraki, and they did nothing to help them through the years while they were homeless.

[BarristanTheBold1]

The more i read GOT over and over the more im convinced Eddard Stark is not dead or will return . He is the one person we

know for certain could verify who Jons parents were and also support his claim. He is also a Witness to baby Aegon being truely dead.

The part were Varys is in the tunnels with Eddard and he jokes about slitting his throat and hiding him behind the walls and if

Catlyn is not in kings landing then there must be an excellent imposter there. If Varys didnt replace him and hold him prisoner

somewhere else because Eddard knew the truth about Aegon, then i believe the other possibility will be Eddard appearing to Jon in a dream and telling him the truth.

He's alive as "headless Ned"?

[The Iron Suitor]

What letter did Ned give varys ....there was no mention of him giving Varys a letter in the first book....and why would he trust varys with such important information. He wouldn't even tell his wife or good friends....I find it hard to believe he would tell the spider of such news.

I want to start off by saying I don't believe Ned would tell Varys. However He may have told him now because he sees the threat to Jons life over. The reason he kept it a secret from Cat and his friends for so long was because if by chance it ever got back to Robert, Jon would be in danger. With Robert dead that allows him to be more trusting with the secret especially if he believes Varys to be a Targ loyalist.

[EnergeticCrab]

So many quotes!

Crazy theory with a spoiler from Winds of Winter.

Bran finds out through his weirwood recollections about R+L=J and using the crows to influence Stannis sends Theon to be executed, where he reveals himself and tells Theon to go find Cat and send her to Howland Reed. There she will learn the truth R+L=J and be sent to the wall to deliver the Kiss to Jon completing both her and Theon’s redemption.

This is a neat theory, both in terms of how interesting it is, and how it all seems to fit into place. I wouldn't mind this happening, but it seems too good to be true and unCat doesn't appear to follow standard reasoning anymore.

I think the readers of the book will find out Jon's parentage before Jon does. Probably from Quaithe to Dany.

Ah!!! Yes I support this as well. That is so the style of the books- that the readers are let on about shit before characters. Though we already got a taste of that when Arya is told about the milk brother thing so maybe GRRM won't do the same trick twice on that topic.

Bloodraven absolutely knows and I think he is responsible for the direwolves finding their way to the Stark kids. I think it is highly significant that Jon's wolf is white with red eyes exactly like BR himself and that Jon and BR both are half Targ with noble blood on the other side as well. Bran could tell Jon without being physically present the same way he communicated with him in the frostfangs in ACoK telling him to open his third eye, etc. So my prediction is BR/Bran telling Jon.

This is a great theory too, I could see Jon getting a vision from Bran as he gets more powerful from his 'training'.

What is this series called? A Song of Ice and Fire

A SONG OF ICE (stark) AND FIRE (targaryen)

A SONG OF ICE (lyanna) AND FIRE (rhaegar)

And you think Jon's parentage doesn't matter?

Basically.

Missing the "like" button right now.

I could see us finding out through two ways:

1- Reed finally shows up and tells what happened at the Tower of Joy.

2- Bran, while viewing past events through the Winterfell Weirwood, sees Eddard confessing/spilling to the Ancient Gods about what happened that day at the Tower of Joy, and how the lie he has lived since.

My money, personally, is on Bran being the first to inform the reader, while Reed is the first to inform the characters.

Those seem like options as well, the weirwood network is going to make a stronger appearance, I think, now that it has been used as a plot device and Bran is becoming a part of it. It's also ridiculous we haven't decently met Holand Reed yet, so I hope that comes to fruition in TWOW

[darksellsword]

He's alive as "headless Ned"?

hahahha no , the only way Eddard would be alive would be if he was replaced before the confession and execution by a faceless man or some kind of magic glammer put over some imposter he wont come back as a headless corpse .Why is it that everyone has great faith in the idea of Bran supernaturally passing information on to jon etc but they dont entertain the possibilty that Eddard may of had some of the abilities his children have inherited. I think the influence of Eddard Stark has not ended on this story and he will play a role in how it progresses.

[tyrion targ]

I would love for the r+l=j theory to be true but if he was wouldn't he have Dany's resistance to fire and in agot when saving the lc from the wights he suffered a burn injury to his hand that was not caused by any magical fire like Dany's dragon fire burns in adod. It is true that viserys died from the golden crown but since Danny isn't completly immune to fire mabye she would die from that as well or mabye viserys isn't dead he just passed out from the pain and all the dothraki assumed he was dead because anyone else would die from that and viserys was able to sneak away and went somewhere like ashai to plot his revenge against dany and the world. I think it would be awesome to see him come in twow or ados as the main antagonist.

[Gordias]

I would love for the r+l=j theory to be true but if he was wouldn't he have Dany's resistance to fire and in agot when saving the lc from the wights he suffered a burn injury to his hand that was not caused by any magical fire like Dany's dragon fire burns in adod. It is true that viserys died from the golden crown but since Danny isn't completly immune to fire mabye she would die from that as well or mabye viserys isn't dead he just passed out from the pain and all the dothraki assumed he was dead because anyone else would die from that and viserys was able to sneak away and went somewhere like ashai to plot his revenge against dany and the world. I think it would be awesome to see him come in twow or ados as the main antagonist.

There are certainly good reasons to doubt Jon's parentage (as they are to suggest he is a Targ), but this forum's obsession with fire resistance is, imo., unfortunately not one of them :P. That word may even be a poor choice, as iirc it's not so much a resistance as it is a higher tolerance of heat.

More telling is the lack of any dragon dreams, though Jon is a warg (which complicates things). But as the Targs and Starks have apparently never married, we have no precedent to work with (hence the unsureity of this forum), so we'll just have to wait and see :)

[Ghost's Shadow]

Hmm, Jon does not have a dragon yet, so if it depends on that, he wouldn't.

But he did have a possible 'future' dream about him being AAR and wielding Lightbringer.

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

I think one of the strongest pieces of evidence for the R+L=J theory is actually Mel's chapter in ADWD. The part where she mentions asking for visions of Stanis and AA in the flames, and the flames only showing her Snow. This is of course assuming we are going to act on the assumption that the AA prophecies and the Prince That Was Promised prophecy go hand in hand ... and that they must be fulfilled by a Targ.

If a Reed does reveal anything to Jon, I think it would have to be Howland (which I'm not ruling out since he is the last living man to know what happened at the Tower of Joy). I honestly don't think the Reed children are ever making it back south of the wall, sadly. I have my doubts Bran will ever make it South, for that matter.

I guess it's possible that the Reed children will eventally reveal Jon's parentage to Bran (I think they definitely know more about Lyanna and Rhaegar judging by the "... but that's a sadder story" line. But I don't see any reason for them to make that revelation unless it is somehow revealed that Jon, or the children of Rhaegar, are important as far as defeating the Others are concerned. They have bigger fish to fry with Bran so to speak.

So my money is on Howland, Mel and Bran (learning the information through the Weirnet).

[darksellsword]

I have a question someone amongst the R+L = j believers might have the answer to. Im assuming Eddard named Jon after his mentor

Jon arryn if you agree that this is probably the case seeing as its not a very Targaryen name or a traditional Stark name . It would be safe to assume Lyanna or even Rhaegar had already given their own child a Targaryen name being the reason Eddard changed it to Jon?

[Khal_Rhaego]

Hmm, Jon does not have a dragon yet, so if it depends on that, he wouldn't.

But he did have a possible 'future' dream about him being AAR and wielding Lightbringer.

In aGoT, Tyrion mentions having dragon dreams to Jon and Jon thinks he's being mocked. That might be a hint that Jon has had dragon dreams before and is sensitive to any jests about them.

[lady m]

I have a question someone amongst the R+L = j believers might have the answer to. Im assuming Eddard named Jon after his mentor

Jon arryn if you agree that this is probably the case seeing as its not a very Targaryen name or a traditional Stark name . It would be safe to assume Lyanna or even Rhaegar had already given their own child a Targaryen name being the reason Eddard changed it to Jon?

Rhaegar seems to have been seeking to recreate Aegon & his sisters. I think he was expecting another girl, hence why he said Aegon was the PTWP, I think it's Jon. Going off that, I think Rhaegar would have named her Visenya. Since he turned out to be a boy, I assume his name would have been Viserys.

[Montey14]

I want to start off by saying I don't believe Ned would tell Varys. However He may have told him now because he sees the threat to Jons life over. The reason he kept it a secret from Cat and his friends for so long was because if by chance it ever got back to Robert, Jon would be in danger. With Robert dead that allows him to be more trusting with the secret especially if he believes Varys to be a Targ loyalist.

what do you mean by now......remember....Varys was under the impression that the Cersei would let him take the black ....it was Goffrey who changed the plan and had him beheaded.....why would ned believe he was a targ loyalist if he saw Varys go along with Roberts plan to kill Dany. I htink Lord Eddard is good as dead....and his secret died with him....only one person left that knows the truth about Jon....I don't know how Martin will play it out and divulge this information.

[Montey14]

I have a question someone amongst the R+L = j believers might have the answer to. Im assuming Eddard named Jon after his mentor

Jon arryn if you agree that this is probably the case seeing as its not a very Targaryen name or a traditional Stark name . It would be safe to assume Lyanna or even Rhaegar had already given their own child a Targaryen name being the reason Eddard changed it to Jon?

It is a Stark name.....one of Kings of Winter buried inthe krypts is Jon Stark....think he was the one beofre the king that knelt or after.....not sure