Will Garlan Tyrell be in S3? (Book spoilers)

[Loras Stan]

I don't have a ready link to it right now, but unless HBO decides to go back on their own family tree they have created for the Tyrells (which they very well might do), Willas and Garlan do not exist. Mace and his wife are shown on the tree, with only roses to symbolize them (as they don't have actors), but they are shown to have 2 children--Loras and Margaery. Which makes me believe it's highly unlikely we'll ever get another sibling.

[Sun]

Neither Willas nor Garlan are essential to the storyline, imo. I think it's very likely that they are cut.

[Frumpus]

I don't have a ready link to it right now, but unless HBO decides to go back on their own family tree they have created for the Tyrells (which they very well might do), Willas and Garlan do not exist. Mace and his wife are shown on the tree, with only roses to symbolize them (as they don't have actors), but they are shown to have 2 children--Loras and Margaery. Which makes me believe it's highly unlikely we'll ever get another sibling.

To be fair, they did the same thing with the Blackfish originally - they did not include him on the Tully family tree for S1 or S2. Then again, he was likely added for S3 due to book reader outrage. But I can't see there being much outrage over the two Tyrell brothers missing.

[Loras Stan]

To be fair, they did the same thing with the Blackfish originally - they did not include him on the Tully family tree for S1 or S2. Then again, he was likely added for S3 due to book reader outrage. But I can't see there being much outrage over the two Tyrell brothers missing.

Well that's good to know, then! But yeah...I don't see the uproar, either. It would be different if we had a POV in their family, most likely, but we don't.

[Newstar]

Neither has been cast for Season 3. Mace (or a Mace-like character) exists in the show universe, though: the QOT has referenced her son, the "Lord Oaf of Highgarden," in Episode 2 of Season 3. Nothing about Garlan as of yet, but as others have pointed out, he could be introduced later. If the PW is in Season 4, maybe Mace and Garlan (neither of whom have been cast yet) will roll into town for the wedding. I personally think Garlan is expendable, though.

If both Willas and Garlan are written out altogether--not saying they will be--then that leaves Loras as the heir, which means that him joining the KG would have certain implications in the show it wouldn't have in the books.

But I can't see there being much outrage over the two Tyrell brothers missing.

Hahaha, it's true: no one cares about the Tyrell men.

[siberia82]

Neither Willas nor Garlan are essential to the storyline, imo. I think it's very likely that they are cut.

You're right as of "Kissed by Fire." Bryan Cogman confirmed that Loras is Mace's only son on show, and interestingly, Margaery is the eldest child. (Natalie Dormer is six years older than Finn Jones, so the switch in birth order makes sense.)

If both Willas and Garlan are written out altogether--not saying they will be--then that leaves Loras as the heir, which means that him joining the KG would have certain implications in the show it wouldn't have in the books.

This change has created a minor plot hole. It no longer makes any sense for Loras to have joined Renly's Kingsguard in Season 2 because he would have to give up his claim to Highgarden. Although one could argue that Loras loved Renly so much that he would be willing to sacrifice the titles, lands and incomes, surely Mace would not support Renly's claim to the throne if it meant that he would lose his sole male heir. Margaery's children would be Baratheons, and this situation would eventually cause the main branch of House Tyrell to die out. Mace is somewhat stupid, but he's not THAT stupid.

Hahaha, it's true: no one cares about the Tyrell men.

That's not entirely true. A lot of people on this forum and other GoT sites were outraged at the way Loras was depicted in "Kissed by Fire." It's a relatively strong reaction for a minor character. Along with the Renly/Loras shippers and House Tyrell fans, there are some book readers who are concerned about how Loras' story arc is being adapted for the show.

[CestWhat]

If you wanted to stretch Loras being the heir to Highgarden when he has two older brothers, I guess Willas' injury could make him infertile and Garlan's marriage to Leonette Fossoway is still childless after so many years so Loras is still the heir. It's stretching, but Bryan Cogman only said for now Loras is Mace's only son, but they didn't make it 100% clear Willas and Garlan would never been introduced. The show likes to hedge it bets i.e. mentioning Stannis' wife gave him "nothing" since they were unsure then if Shireen would ever show.

[Lannister Hamster]

If the heir is an issue they can always retcon a younger brother for Loras and Margaery.

It's a bit sloppy from the writers but it's not like any shows are every perfect with no plotholes.

[Lord Varys]

If Loras has no younger brothers in the show, if Mace has only one son, the Tyrells would indeed be total morons in the show. Pretty much nothing that they do or have done in the show would make sense politically. Renly could have claimed Highgarden for his sons by Margaery in the show, just as Joffrey could after Loras joins his Kingsguard.

The only thing they can do to correct that is to introduce Willas as Loras' younger, crippled brother in season 4 (either as character or by mentioning him). It would suffice to make his injury the reason to explain the enmity/bad relations between the Tyrells and the Martells.

But it would even be fine with me if they cut Garlan and have Willas attend the royal wedding in season 4, along with Mace Tyrell who most certainly will be introduced eventually.

[polarbear]

The writers are pretty improvisational. In the highly unlikely event that Willas or Garlan become central and essential characters in the future, they can always be introduced as Mace's younger brothers.

[The Real Prophet]

The writers are pretty improvisational. In the highly unlikely event that Willas or Garlan become central and essential characters in the future, they can always be introduced as Mace's younger brothers.

No. They can't. Any chance of any more Tyrells entering the story was kaput the second that Tywin said that if Loras joined the Kingsguard that HighGarden would go to Joffrey and Margarey's children.

[cuendillar]

No. They can't. Any chance of any more Tyrells entering the story was kaput the second that Tywin said that if Loras joined the Kingsguard that HighGarden would go to Joffrey and Margarey's children.

This is pretty much what I concluded too, from that quote. Still, it is indeed possible for the Tyrell name to live on if Mace is given a brother or two. Margaery's children would still inherit ahead of them, as would she herself. She can't possibly have any younger brothers though and it sure sounded as if there were no distant relations either.

Oh, btw - does this mean Lazy Leo (the Oldtown student) is cut or de-Tyrelled?

[Oakenfist]

Neither Willas nor Garlan are essential to the storyline, imo. I think it's very likely that they are cut.

Willas isn't important but he ensures the continuation if the Tyrells in the series. That's why GRRM made three Tyrell sons so he could kill off one or two yet the family would still have heirs.

In the show the continuation of the Tyrells relies on Loras? Who we know joins the KG. They didn't think this through. Marge's children won't continue the line.

[Sun]

Willas isn't important but he ensures the continuation if the Tyrells in the series. That's why GRRM made three Tyrell sons so he could kill off one or two yet the family would still have heirs.

In the show the continuation of the Tyrells relies on Loras? Who we know joins the KG. They didn't think this through. Marge's children won't continue the line.

Mace can always have a brother and a nephew to continue the Tyrell line. Let's not be over dramatic about this.

[Oakenfist]

Mace can always have a brother and a nephew to continue the Tyrell line. Let's not be over dramatic about this.

Which would only happen if Marge never has children or dies and Loras doesn't join the KG. I'm not being dramatic but just pointing out the stupidity of D&D to not think this through.

[Winterz]

Actually I don't think there will be any Willas or Garlan at all. No mention to them has been made, whatsoever. Most of the little book development we have on them has been replaced with Loras and also the family's tree in HBO's website has only Loras and Marge listed. The show has been following a path where there doesn't seem to be any room for Willas or Garlan so unfortunately I think they'll never exist in the Show.

This may also hint that the 2 Tyrells brothers may not be that relevant in the upcoming books.

[Sun]

Which would only happen if Marge never has children or dies and Loras doesn't join the KG. I'm not being dramatic but just pointing out the stupidity of D&D to not think this through.

You're very definitive in your use of adjectives, and you are being over dramatic if you think that this little bind is unsolvable.

Firstly, unlike the books, the Tyrells have no desire to see Loras join the KG. We are assuming it will happen because of the books, but there's nothing forcing D&D to follow that particular line. Loras can still have the arc he had in the books by simply being the commander of the Tyrell forces.

Secondly, if Loras does end up in the KG, it will have been done without Tyrell permission. In which case, I would expect Mace to name his closest blood relation as heir, until they can extricate Loras from his position.

[polarbear]

Tyrion claimed that he should be heir to Casterly Rock, but we have already seen half a dozen Lannister uncles and cousins on the show. So i dont see how Margery and Loras being only two children somehow prohibits the existence of a large extended Tyrell clan.

In fact didnt we already meet a bunch of granddaughters hanging out with Lady Olenna?

[Winterz]

Also one I thing I just remembered. Loras was regarded as heir to Highgarden so that alone, excludes any possibilities.

[Oakenfist]

You're very definitive in your use of adjectives, and you are being over dramatic if you think that this little bind is unsolvable.

Firstly, unlike the books, the Tyrells have no desire to see Loras join the KG. We are assuming it will happen because of the books, but there's nothing forcing D&D to follow that particular line. Loras can still have the arc he had in the books by simply being the commander of the Tyrell forces.

Secondly, if Loras does end up in the KG, it will have been done without Tyrell permission. In which case, I would expect Mace to name his closest blood relation as heir, until they can extricate Loras from his position.

Mace can't bend the laws of succession, so if Loras is made KG then Marge becomes heir. Thats the whole point of the conversation between Olenna and Tywin. I know Tywin acts like he can tell Tyrion he isn't going to inherit the Rock, but he's operating under he assumption that Jaime will be removed from the KG.

And of course at Tyrions trial he wants to officially disinherit him by sending him to the Watch.