assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Playing Devil's advocate here: Doran points out that Dorn's success wasn't what everyone seem's to believe it was. Guerrilla warfare? Unlike the original Targs, whose forces were mostly 'standard' sell swords, Dany has Unsullied & Dothraki...both very good at dealing with that sort of thing! & Dorn would be the most like the Free Cities, so the disadvantages they would have in the rest of Westeros, not so big there. :shocked:No, they really, really aren't. The Dothraki are used to riding out in open fields and the Unsullied are basically a hoplite formation that, by the way, are getting their asses handed to them in Meereen by the Harpy. The Unsullied are engaged against guerilla warfare tactics in ADWD and the point is that they're losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Daenerys successfully conquering Dorne is very unlikely. Aegon I spent years plotting his conquest of the Seven Kingdoms, and his forces failed to conquer it. Daeron's army, while successfully defeating Dornish host, failed to hold Dorne. At this point, we don't even know if Daenerys will have all three dragons under her control and she'll most likely have a less disciplined army.Oh, and who says Dorne doesn't have a competent commander? Mace is a fool but his vassals are worthy commanders. We don't know enough about the houses in Dorne to decide that they have poor leadership. I'm not saying they'll have a Randyll Tarly but surely a lord or two are decent commanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I was talking historically, but in Meereen they are being picked of individually in a city, were as they would be in formation in Dorn. Dothraki, ride open fields, but they do deal with guerrilla tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I was talking historically, but in Meereen they are being picked of individually in a city, were as they would be in formation in Dorn. Dothraki, ride open fields, but they do deal with guerrilla tactics.What are you basing this on? When have the Dothraki successfully engaged in guerilla warfare that we've seen? And why are you so sure that Dorne's just going to roll over and engage in traditional formation warfare? You can't be in formation and fight if the other side refuses to engage is symmetric warfare with you.I'm not sure guerilla warfare means what you think it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 i think there might be a three way split. Dorne and the north succeed in winning their independence, the middle falls. one way or another, I think Dorne is going to take some punches, but i don't think its going down. maybe by the end of the serries, it technically conquered but in a state of guerrilla warfare, with the middle essentially pacified, and the north independent. i don't think its going to be a happilly ever after ending, and i kind of like the idea of Dorne being Danny's Afghanistan, so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 If Dany by any chance manages to subdue Dorne, it will likely be owed more to Tyrion's brains than her dragons. Aegon and his sisters couldn't conquer Dorne with dragons, and each dragon was larger than Dany's three put together, nor could Daeron I with superior numbers. Tyrion is a good strategist, and he's likely done his HW on Dorne and its military history, unlike Dany, but when has she ever done her HW on anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 furthermore, the Dornish calvary are going to wreak bloody havok on anyone but the Dothraki. it specifically states they use horse archery for hit and runs, so that is going to be a bloody encounter with the dothraki, who do the same, with bows described in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Well if Dany were to land in Dorne, with the intent of conquering it, she would have a hard time indeed. There is nothing to unite a country such as the threat of a foreign invader, especially when said invader has dragons/unsullied/various sellsword companies/freedmen etc but no real Westerosi alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter209 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Is it not obvious by now that Dorne will side with Aegon, considering Quentyn was barbecued by Dany's dragons? Not to mention the fact that the only person keeping the Dornish out of the war, and tbh the only Dornishman who would have any misgivings about Aegon's validity, is about to keel over any day now. Dorne's going to be with Aegon, end of story. No other logical explanation exists for the last 2 books worth of Dornish storylines, setting up Arianne's impulsiveness wrt trying to crown Myrcella, Doran's rapidly failing health paving the way for her ascension to the leader of Dorne, and then Quentyn going east and dying at the hands of the dragons that belong to the VERY PERSON he was sent to bring back. Plus, she laughed in his face when he presented himself to Dany. If there's a constant to the stories that make there way across the world, it's the fact that are blown way out of proportion, making it even more certain that Doran/Arianne will see Dany and tell her to GTFO of Dorne. Not to mention that every time Dany has a chance to go to Westeros, she decides not to. It's getting to the point where I'm about to skip her chapters in TWOW because she'll still be saying "I'm the blood of the dragon, the Iron Throne is mine" while not doing shit about trying to take it back. Every book since Clash she's had an opportunity, if not multiple, to go back to Westeros and decided not to, even getting a DAMN GOOD marriage alliance with the son of the Prince of Dorne to get her to come back. Dany completely bungled the Dornish road, and now has to reap the consequences of not taking Quentyn up on his offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I'm not sure guerilla warfare means what you think it means. takes deep breath...regains center...Even when I'm not directly engaging this person I should know better! I'm walking away before I get myself banned! :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 takes deep breath...regains center...Even when I'm not directly engaging this person I should know better! I'm walking away before I get myself banned! :leaving:I think there might be several of us who are curious about what you meant when you wrote that the Unsullied and Dothraki will be effective against guerilla warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 takes deep breath...regains center...Even when I'm not directly engaging this person I should know better! I'm walking away before I get myself banned! :leaving:I'm just asking you to defend your position that the Dothraki and the Unsullied are successful against guerilla warfare, when evidence in the books is either lacking (Dothraki) or shows the complete opposite to be true (the Unsullied). If you can't defend that position, you can't, but that's not my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I think there might be several of us who are curious about what you meant when you wrote that the Unsullied and Dothraki will be effective against guerilla warfare.Indeed. We have seen how well the dothraki handle deserts, in the red wastes. And the unsullied are main battle troops, hit and runs by dornish horse archers will cut the down pretty fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Indeed. We have seen how well the dothraki handle deserts, in the red wastes. And the unsullied are main battle troops, hit and runs by dornish horse archers will cut the down pretty fastI think it might also be worth mentioning that in both Dorne and the North, the hardier horses are bred especially for harsh conditions. The mountain clans in the North have their cold-temepered horses, while the Dornish breed horses that thrive in the desert. Something tells me that Dothraki horses won't do well in either Dornish desert or the northern winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oprahnoodlemantra Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Dany ruined her conquest of Westeros for herself by turning down Quentyn. Aegon has arrived in Westeros and will be seen as a savior figure by many people. He'll have the support of Dorne and possibly other lords. When Dany arrives, she'll have foreigners, the pirate Ironmen, fire breathing dragons, and a deformed Imp that the realm currently despises. Dany is making herself into a dragon that the people of Westeros will fear. They'll look to their dragon, Aegon, to protect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I guess its almost a consensus that Dany's been disqualified hecause Quentyn decided he should try and steal a dragon. I dont think that's the case. Doran knew the risks and thought Dany (and her dragons) was worth it. For an ulta cautious guy like Doran, he had to have a contingency plan on the very real chance that Q would fail. Yes a lot of work was put into the plan, but like it or not, Quentyn blew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imajasjam Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 There really isn't much point conquering Dorne apart from bragging rights. You're looking at a hostile environment and a strong warrior native population combined with almost no real economic incentive even if you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I guess its almost a consensus that Dany's been disqualified hecause Quentyn decided he should try and steal a dragon. I dont think that's the case. Doran knew the risks and thought Dany (and her dragons) was worth it. For an ulta cautious guy like Doran, he had to have a contingency plan on the very real chance that Q would fail. Yes a lot of work was put into the plan, but like it or not, Quentyn blew it.Even if Doran doesn't hold Dany responsible for Quentyn's death, that doesn't change the fact that she isn't a viable marriage option anymore, while Aegon is; that she's nowhere near Westeros, while Aegon is; and that Aegon is closer kin and has a better claim. You also assume that Doran's just going to shrug off Quentyn's death with a "shit happens" attitude and I think that's a stretch. It's especially a stretch if you throw Arianne and the Sand Snakes into the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 There really isn't much point conquering Dorne apart from bragging rights. You're looking at a hostile environment and a strong warrior native population combined with almost no real economic incentive even if you win.They have... Lemons? And supposedly good wine, and spices, which are worth more than gold, so maybe that part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Am Azor Ahai Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 My God, what a ghastly idea. Quentyn was severly burned, hat he`ll be looking like? Like a living proof what hapenns if you get near dragons?Imagine the symbolism, both for Dany and R'hllor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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