Stoneheart or Dondarrion?

[King of the Bread]

I dislike both of them simply because of their undead aspect. It cheapens the finality of death if any character can just simply be brought back to life. But out of Beric and Stoneheart I would have to choose Stoneheart. She still protects the innocent (the orphanage) and attacks those responsible for the destruction in the Riverlands. Even though her method of trial is still extremely biased as she alone decides the fate of captives its still better than a trial by combat because she at least she offers actual evidence against them to determine their guilt rather than basing her conviction off someone's martial prowess.

[LordStoneheart]

I dislike both of them simply because of their undead aspect. It cheapens the finality of death if any character can just simply be brought back to life. But out of Beric and Stoneheart I would have to choose Stoneheart. She still protects the innocent (the orphanage) and attacks those responsible for the destruction in the Riverlands. Even though her method of trial is still extremely biased as she alone decides the fate of captives its still better than a trial by combat because she at least she offers actual evidence against them to determine their guilt rather than basing her conviction off someone's martial prowess.

Yes, I hate the trial by battle. Such a ignorant, medieval thing... "The gods will decide." Ugh. kill killers, that should be law, and the Hound admitted it. Beric should have just killed him.

[Ser Bluto]

I see Cat/Stoneheart as being able to settle some of the Stark's unfinished business.

I think that GRRM will bring his tale full circle and restore balance... so a character/device such as the Brotherhood under Stoneheart will act as an agent of justice... bloody justice.

[The Real Targaryen]

I think part of it has to deal with the mission:

After his resurrection, parts of Beric's personality was gone, with the only real thing remaining being his mission, sent by Ned Stark, to capture/kill the Mountain and make Tywin pay. Shortly after the Red Wedding, the Mountain dies. I think at that same time, or near enough to make no matter, Beric gave his life to Catelyn.

Catelyn now has a mission, or two. The first is obviously killing the Freys and extracting revenge. The second would be to fix the mistake she made in life of attempting to trade the Kingslayer for her children. Since both her children have disappeared, she needs to fix the problem that she caused with the North and get the revenge on the Kingslayer that Karstark was denied.

Or, and this is just a crackpot theory, GRRM just wanted to resurrect a main character. One of the things he disliked most about LotR was that when Gandalf came back, he came back stronger, wiser, and kinder. He was the same person only better. We never knew Beric before his death so it's hard to show the change in him but making a major p.o.v. character like Catelyn return, he gets to fix something he found a problem in another series. Catelyn was arguably one of the most moral of all the characters. After death, she's become immoral, going so far as to hang an innocent Pod.

[LordStoneheart]

After death, she's become immoral, going so far as to hang an innocent Pod.

Pod's not innocent.

And good catch with the Gandalf thing.

[Thor Odinson]

R'hllor doesn't exist. This trial was as clear a proof of that as anything, since Sandor was completely guilty, he even admitted it.

Who's to say R'hllor doesn't exist? And he didn't exactly confess. He said he killed Mycah, but he was obeying orders to kill someone who was accused of attacking a prince, a capital offense. So in this case it would seem that the Hound was operating well within the law. Hell, does he ever commit an outright murder? He kills a lot of people, but killing a lot of people isn't the same as cold-blooded murder.

Harwin took her arm to draw her back as Lord Beric said, "The girl has named you a murderer. Do you deny killing this butcher’s boy, Mycah?"

The big man shrugged. "I was Joffrey’s sworn shield. The butcher’s boy attacked a prince of the blood."

"That’s a lie!" Arya squirmed in Harwin’s grip. "It was me. I hit Joffrey and threw Lion’s Paw in the river. Mycah just ran away, like I told him."

"Did you see the boy attack Prince Joffrey?" Lord Beric Dondarrion asked the Hound.

"I heard it from the royal lips. It’s not my place to question princes." Clegane jerked his hands toward Arya. "This one’s own sister told the same tale when she stood before your precious Robert."

[Lionbane]

Well, Dondarrion was basically a highborn Robin Hood type of guy.

On the other hand, Stoneheart is the personal Grim Reaper of House Frey and House Bolton.

The Brotherhood goes marching down, hurrah, hurrah

The Brotherhood goes marching down, hurrah, hurrah

They capture Freys at Stoneheart's call

They judge the Freys and hang them all

And the Freys go swinging around and around

BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!

[Mark Antony]

I like them both, I'm a bigger Stoneheart fan though. Can't wait to see how her story will play out.

[Runaway Penguin]

UnCat is quite off her rocker... And if you criticise "unfair trial of combat", what is fair in hanging someone for things outside his/her control? (heck, even without getting as much intel on the daughters as possible - Brienne after all managed to gather something).

As for Hound's trial, he admitted to killing Mycah, because he was Prince's sword shield and Mycah attacked prince (or so was Hound told). It was not even Hound's word against Arya's, but Arya's against (not present) Joffrey and Sansa. Hence trial by combat. If you insist on "Killers should be killed", then most of BwB should commit seppukku?

Story-wise, I wonder how it plays out. i guess in the end Thoros of Myr will take back the gift when it goes over the top - "Red Wedding 2" might be a good candidate for that when UnCat would fully switch to "hang 'em all" mode. Or, alternately, someone talks sense to UnCat.Combination of Thoros, Jaime and Blackfish may do it.

Anyway, if jaime was to be hanged, he would have been hanged pretty publicly like the Freys and outlaws are. So it seems he is surviving so far.

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

I just hope UnCat doesn't show up at the wall to raise UnJon.

i think she is (the story from seson3 about cat and jon , the fact that someone has to "resurect" jon ) but i think it will be deferend this time ....

beric and cat became differend whene ressurected jon snow may change only on the outside . thats my 2 cents

[Runaway Penguin]

Jon snow is 1. far off, 2. probably not dead, just seriously injured. Keep the Red Lot hands off him!

UnCat is firmly tied to the Riverlands and to visiting vengeance upon Freys. Riverlands will take care of Riverlands... North wil take care of North as far as Red Wedding vengeance goes (apart from tasty bits of Riverlands in Lord Manderly's pies).

[David Selig]

Who's to say R'hllor doesn't exist?

Me.

And he didn't exactly confess. He said he killed Mycah, but he was obeying orders to kill someone who was accused of attacking a prince, a capital offense. So in this case it would seem that the Hound was operating well within the law.

Since when does the BWB give a damn about the law? They are outlaws after all. Gregor's men, Lorch's men and the Bloody Mummers were obeying orders too and were following the law too (Tywin, the Hand of the King, ordered them to murder and pillage), yet the BWB are hanging them ASAP when they catch them.

UnCat is quite off her rocker... And if you criticise "unfair trial of combat", what is fair in hanging someone for things outside his/her control?

Who do you mean?

[daario's man]

I find it how for most people Beric is an awesome hero and Stoneheart, when their actions are really similar and in some ways Stoneheart is better (the orphanage, no more extremely unfair trials by battle, etc).

No, just strait up hangings. No trial at all, how is that fair?

[The Sleeper]

No, just strait up hangings. No trial at all, how is that fair?

What are you talking about? Brienne got a hearing, evidence were presented that she was an othebreaker, she got to make her case and failed to convince. Even then, she was offered a chance to prove her loyalty. We don't know about the circumstances of any of the other hangings. As far as the Freys go, LS was both a witness and a victim.

[The Sleeper]

It also seems to me that there is an aspect that is beeing overlooked. We know that Beric was very much aware of his condition. We can assume the same is true for LS. Cat saw a woman whose life she had saved, whom she trusted with her daughters' lives and who had sworn her an oath, defending a man who pushed one of her sons out a window and sent his regards through Roose Bolton as the latter was stabbing her other son through the heart. Can you imagine how betrayed she must feel?

This whose seen a woman whose seen her entire family ambushed, betrayed, abandoned and murdered, often by people they considered friends, her family whose main aspiration was to live in peace, a woman whose even denied the right to rest in peace after all she has suffered. And people are complaining about her hanging her family's murderers? Considering the circumstances, she is showing considerable wisdom and restraint. Keep the rope coming.

[Wales338]

Me.

First off you have no authority to say that, and the only person who will be able to tell us that is GRRM. You can believe anything you want but it doesn't make it true.

Since when does the BWB give a damn about the law? They are outlaws after all. Gregor's men, Lorch's men and the Bloody Mummers were obeying orders too and were following the law too (Tywin, the Hand of the King, ordered them to murder and pillage), yet the BWB are hanging them ASAP when they catch them.

The BWB has cared about law since the very start. Gregor's and Lorch were not following the law at the start. Gregor was deemed an outlaw by the Hand Eddard Stark for the raping and pillaging of the Riverlands, and the original members of the BWB were sent out to bring him to justice becasue he was breaking the laws. Therefore the origins of the BWB was based in a respect and goal of upholding the law.

Who do you mean?

How is it fair to hang Pod because he happened to be born into a family that served House Lannister and through a series of events became Tyrions squire? An argument could be made for why Brienne was being hung, but none exist that I can think of for the hanging of Pod or Ser Hyle.

[jarl the climber]

How is it fair to hang Pod because he happened to be born into a family that served House Lannister and through a series of events became Tyrions squire? An argument could be made for why Brienne was being hung, but none exist that I can think of for the hanging of Pod or Ser Hyle.

They could not really hang Breinne and then let Ser Hyle and Pod go. Tarly men were hunting them down and they had not retaliated so far. Its a dubious way to deal with the situation but Hyle and Pod were a problem for them.

[LordStoneheart]

How is it fair to hang Pod because he happened to be born into a family that served House Lannister and through a series of events became Tyrions squire? An argument could be made for why Brienne was being hung, but none exist that I can think of for the hanging of Pod or Ser Hyle.

That's exactly why.

[Wales338]

That's exactly why.

The Brotherhood Without Banners was suppose to be about justice. They didn't just kill people becasue of the house in which they served, as was seen with the Hound. He served house Lannister and he was let go after he won his trial. By hanging Pod it demostrates that there has been a shift in the goal of the brotherhood. Pod was hanged because they served house Lannister which in no way can be any form of justice. Pod was following the legal obligation in which his family had entered in a feudal society by answering the call from the Lannisters. So how is it fair to hang a boy becasue he answered the legal obligation of his family?