R+L=J v.45

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think Jon's fate comes down to one of two things:

1. He goes into a coma or is out of commission for a bit but otherwise survives.

2. He does die but is able to be resurrected "normally" (e.g. not a wight or like UnCat) through whatever ice-fire magic being who he is might conjure (read: No help from Melisandre).

So on the one end you have the ultra mundane and on the other you have the full monty in terms of magic. I think it's one or the other.

[Moët]

Or:

3. Melissandre realizes AA is Jon, and she helps him instead of Stannis.

4. His body is in a coma, while he's warged into Ghost.

I think they're lots of possibilities... that might should be it's own thread? (That probably already exists?) :dunno:

[Ghost's Shadow]

That Asshai witch is not touching him. She'd know he wouldn't want that from her, anyone but her...

Hopefully Val/Wildlings to the rescue. Maybe he wakes up in Val's bed. :P

[MtnLion]

Or:

3. Melissandre realises AA is Jon, and she helps him instead of Stannis.

4. His body is in a coma, while he's warged into Ghost.

I think they're lots of possibilities... that might should be it's own thread? (That probably already exists?) :dunno:

I think that Jon's last predicament was due to Melisandre's meddling where she shouldn't have been. I would much rather Catelyn give up her life to raise Jon, if he is dead (I don't think so). Everyone seems to assume that since Thoros did it with Beric that it is common for all of the red priests to do. I think that Thoros' own thoughts on what happened reveal that it is the exception, like hatching dragons.

[Alia of the knife]

On Jons death, I think this is his "kill the boy and let the man be born " moment.

So, I don't think he is dead, but the last vestiges of naivety will be gone, and he will show no mercy to any of his enemies.

Winter is coming with fire and blood.

[madraykin]

(Eek, my first post here - please be gentle)

Dune, did anyone say Dune.....? :ph34r:

Because you just know Rhaegar is Paul Maudib, Lyanna is Chani and Elia is Irulan, (kind of), Jon is Leto who will warg a dragon and live for three thousand years. :D

Edit: Oh, and Bran is going to Bloodraven so Bloodraven can pass on his powers and die.

Reading some of the discussions here - and especially the dislike that many people have for a Jon/Dany pairing - I'd actually wondered about a Jon/Dany marriage along the lines of Leto/Ghanima (for people who haven't read the Dune series that would be an incestuous marriage to keep power in one family but the marriage is a non-sexual one and one party takes an offical consort to have heirs with). Though that would be somewhat dependent on whether or not Dany could have children.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Welcome to the forum!

I was actually just on the bathroom (TMI?) and thought of a thread about 'how bitter/sweet the ending might be'. Maybe Jon and Dany do end up getting married, but the bitter part is that there's no children and so no more Targ heirs. All for nothing. I don't think this will happen, though.

If there is such a thing as a J/D marriage, I'm hoping for children for them, and please let them be sane and not interbreed in the next generation as to avoid the madness. That's really my biggest 'no' against such a marriage: the next generation of crazy Targs in the making.

[Zupoleon]

On Jons death, I think this is his "kill the boy and let the man be born " moment.

So, I don't think he is dead, but the last vestiges of naivety will be gone, and he will show no mercy to any of his enemies.

Winter is coming with fire and blood.

Totally agree - Martin was setting it up with that line all along...

[Ghost's Shadow]

He could have been shocked into Ghost, but not mortally wounded.

I wonder, if it is indeed that quote come into play right now, what will be different with him after.

Love the 'Winter is coming with fire and blood' thing.

[Ser Theodan the True]

I can't recall, how many times does Jon get stabbed? I have this impression in my mind that his body is full of holes...

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I can't recall, how many times does Jon get stabbed? I have this impression in my mind that his body is full of holes...

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

The first was a scratch, the second in the belly, the third between the shoulder blades.

IMO, survivable wounds. Although we don't know where the fourth knife struck...

Still, given the circumstances, it seems unlikely the would be assassins would get much further than the fourth.

[madraykin]

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

The first was a scratch, the second in the belly, the third between the shoulder blades.

IMO, survivable wounds. Although we don't know where the fourth knife struck...

Still, given the circumstances, it seems unlikely the would be assassins would get much further than the fourth.

Do we know that there even was a fourth? After all it's Jon's POV so if he doesn't feel it how do we know it happened?

[Ser Theodan the True]

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

The first was a scratch, the second in the belly, the third between the shoulder blades.

IMO, survivable wounds. Although we don't know where the fourth knife struck...

Still, given the circumstances, it seems unlikely the would be assassins would get much further than the fourth.

Thanks! I guess when I read it it was so unexpected and devastating I imagined like 20 men with knives stabbing him repeatedly haha.

[Ghost's Shadow]

No, there's only an idiot or 4 tops at the NW willing to stab him. :P

[Buried Treasure]

Jon might have seen the fourth assailant move in before he passed out, or sensed another man close to him.

[Ser Theodan the True]

Jon might have seen the fourth assailant move in before he passed out, or sensed another man close to him.

So technically there could have been more than 4?

[swoosh stark]

I don't understand why the majority of fans think that Jon is the son of rhaegar. If he really was his son, then why doesnt he have any targareyan features?

[Alia of the knife]

(Eek, my first post here - please be gentle)

Reading some of the discussions here - and especially the dislike that many people have for a Jon/Dany pairing - I'd actually wondered about a Jon/Dany marriage along the lines of Leto/Ghanima (for people who haven't read the Dune series that would be an incestuous marriage to keep power in one family but the marriage is a non-sexual one and one party takes an offical consort to have heirs with). Though that would be somewhat dependent on whether or not Dany could have children.

Welcome!!!!

I think for the purposes of this universe, the blood matters in terms of "blood of the dragon," so taking a consort to bear their chidren doesn't really help to "keep it in the family."

It's true in "Dune" that the Bene Gesserit were trying to manipulate bloodlines to get a certain outcome, so blood, Harkonnen and Atreides did matter, but spefically a Harkonnen male to an Atreides female, which Lady Jessica did not give the Duke, hence Paul.

But that deviation from "prophesy" actually produced the "Kwisatz Hadderach." Out of love, Lady Jessica broke from her directives and gave the Duke a son.

It's a theme that I think is similar in aSoIaF in the sense of trying to live by prophesy, but only when you live does prophesy actually play out.

And, in this universe, genetics are not known well enough to make deliberate attempts at manipulation for a certain outcome, (unless the Maesters know something and deliberately kept Houses Stark and Targaryen apart, never allowing a chance for a marriage between the bloodlines).

If Dany figured out the implications that warging had on the Targaryen ability to control the dragons in a truly natural way, without sorcery, she might then from that point order that at least one Targaryen marry one Stark on down the generations to enhance that ability.

Edit: I suppose you could make a parallel between the Maesters and the Bene Gesserit depending upon what the Maesters are up to.

He could have been shocked into Ghost, but not mortally wounded.

I wonder, if it is indeed that quote come into play right now, what will be different with him after.

Love the 'Winter is coming with fire and blood' thing.

In another thread, the theory was discussed that "Winter is Coming" is actually not just the words of a House, but the war cry of a House the House itself had forgotten-until now.

Add to that Jons Targaryen heritage and that Houses own mantra.

[Ser Theodan the True]

I don't understand why the majority of fans think that Jon is the son of rhaegar. If he really was his son, then why doesnt he have any targareyan features?

The genetics of Lyanna and her Stark blood might have been the dominant traits?

[The guy from the Vale]

I don't understand why the majority of fans think that Jon is the son of rhaegar. If he really was his son, then why doesnt he have any targareyan features?

Because the Targaryen features are recessive. Rhaegar's first child, Rhaenys, also didn't have Targaryen features.

Also, Jon has Rhaegar's build - lean and lithe.