Is Syrio Forel really dead?

[White Guy With Sword]

Schrodinger's cat. We'll never know until there is proof positive. Until then he can be considered both dead and alive. XD lol

[Howling Mad]

Given the number of times GRRM gets asked about Syrio in interviews I bet he wishes he had killed him on page in front of 8 POV characters.

[TalalOfDorne]

I really wish one of the characters would dig up Syrio's body and kill him again just so this theory can finally be put to rest.

Even then Im not sure if it will convince everybody (Look at Ned) .

Some people really really want him alive for some reason.

[Lord Reaver]

It really is starting to get old. And actually has turned me off the character a bit. I mean, he was pretty awesome right after I'd read the books, but since coming here, I've started to loathe every time his name comes up.

[Knight Of Winter]

Given the number of times GRRM gets asked about Syrio in interviews I bet he wishes he had killed him on page in front of 8 POV characters.

:lol:. It would be hillarious if George introduced Ser Meryn POV (hopefully Prologue) just for us to read: Yes, I killed Syrio. I stabbed him six times and beheaded him.

[Night'sQueen]

The short answer is...yes.

[direwienerdog]

Fear cuts deeper than sarcasm.

Quick as a deer.

Quiet as a shadow

Dead as a door nail.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I don't know what Martin has said, but my theory is that Syrio was captured by the Lannister guards and thrown in the dungeons to be executed perhaps. He then became Jaqen and the Lannisters thought that maybe Syrio escaped. Yoren finds Syrio/Jaqen in the dungeons and takes him to the Wall.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

I don't know what Martin has said, but my theory is that Syrio was captured by the Lannister guards and thrown in the dungeons to be executed perhaps. He then became Jaqen and the Lannisters thought that maybe Syrio escaped. Yoren finds Syrio/Jaqen in the dungeons and takes him to the Wall.

Ned was placed in the cells before Syrio and Arya's last lesson was interrupted, and Ned was the only occupant. Later, we learn that when Ned was placed in the cells, they had just been emptied of their 3 occupants for the Nights Watch; these 3 being Jaqen, Rorge, and Biter. The story has Jaqen already in a cage under Yoren's control before Syrio and Trant meet.

[Lummel]

It really is starting to get old. And actually has turned me off the character a bit. I mean, he was pretty awesome right after I'd read the books, but since coming here, I've started to loathe every time his name comes up.

Yes, I know the feeling. I am sick of Syrio.

[finger]

Ned was placed in the cells before Syrio and Arya's last lesson was interrupted, and Ned was the only occupant. Later, we learn that when Ned was placed in the cells, they had just been emptied of their 3 occupants for the Nights Watch; these 3 being Jaqen, Rorge, and Biter. The story has Jaqen already in a cage under Yoren's control before Syrio and Trant meet.

As it happens that it is also my theory, I'll answer.

I think to remember that the men at the dungeons were handed to Yoren after Ned was imprisoned. I think some gaoler says something about it, like he was the Hand when he signed the paper, so it was ok. We're repeatedly told that it was common practice to release prisoners to take the black. No gaoler should find a problem with it.

IMO, the only way the story can work is by Syrio yielding and being taken to the dungeons. I don't find it unpalatable, since yielding seems to be common practice as well. But there are evidences to be found yet.

The purpose of Syrio being alive is that he becomes Jaqen, and we have some clues it could have happened: their description, Arya find them alike,... This turn of the story could mean that FM are interested in Arya since the beginning. it's up to us to guess what they're trying.

It's more or less the same that thinking BR put the pups where the Starks could find them.

[mormont]

As it happens that it is also my theory, I'll answer.

I think to remember that the men at the dungeons were handed to Yoren after Ned was imprisoned. I think some gaoler says something about it, like he was the Hand when he signed the paper, so it was ok.

You're referring to Longwaters. Longwaters has a conversation with Jaime in AFFC where he says of the men in the Black Cells that:

There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch. I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made a note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it.

Now, to translate that as meaning that they were released when Lord Stark himself was in the next cell, and Longwaters thought it was OK because he was the Hand when he signed the papers, takes something of a stretch. 'Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch' implies that Lord Stark was still in charge when they left. And it seems to me that a man who is established as fussing about the rules and covering his ass with reports would be pretty unlikely to regard waving off three prisoners that he didn't want released, on the word of a guy who was at that time in the next cell awaiting trial for treason, as being merely a routine day at the office. Even if he did, he made a report about it - presumably someone further up the chain would have said 'what the hell are you thinking?'.

I see no way that conversation can be interpreted in the way you suggest - to me it looks like pretty conclusive evidence in the other direction.

We're repeatedly told that it was common practice to release prisoners to take the black.

Again, no, it's not. At least, not prisoners in the Black Cells, or so it would seem from Longwaters' comments: if it were common practise, he'd not be saying 'I did not think it good'.

IMO, the only way the story can work is by Syrio yielding and being taken to the dungeons. I don't find it unpalatable, since yielding seems to be common practice as well. But there are evidences to be found yet.

That's one way to put it, certainly.

[Lord Ben Stark]

I didn't see him being killed in the books or the show so I will believe he is still alive until it is proven that he was killed. You believe what you want to believe but in my mind Syrio lives!!!

[Hangover of the Morning]

The easiest way to answer the question is to ask what would Syrio's comeback bring to the current story? And the answer is absolutely nothing. At this stage, Arya does not need him anymore and he had no relation to any other character. I love Syrio as much as the next guy and I desperately hoped that he'd be alive after I finished AGOT but the further I kept reading, it was looking less and less likely, until it reached a point where it would be ridiculous and counterproductive for him to appear again.

Syrio served his purpose in the story. He not only saved Arya from being captured by the Kingsguard but he thought her things that helped her survive her time at the Flea Bottom, in Riverlands and in Harrenhall. Without Syrio, Arya would be long dead. I always felt like his spirit kept on living through Arya since she keeps quoting him (and thinking about him) so often.

It really is starting to get old. And actually has turned me off the character a bit. I mean, he was pretty awesome right after I'd read the books, but since coming here, I've started to loathe every time his name comes up.

Amen to that.

[kiasyd]

Wait... You guys hate a character in a fiction book because other people keeps mentioning him in forum threads? That sounds very odd to me. Wouldn't be easier just to skip the aforementioned threads?

<irony>

"Gee, I spend the whole day reading Jon Snow threads in westeros forum... Now I simply cannot stand the character anymore! I just hate him!"

</irony>

[TheTowerOfJoy]

The easiest way to answer the question is to ask what would Syrio's comeback bring to the current story? And the answer is absolutely nothing. At this stage, Arya does not need him anymore and he had no relation to any other character. I love Syrio as much as the next guy and I desperately hoped that he'd be alive after I finished AGOT but the further I kept reading, it was looking less and less likely, until it reached a point where it would be ridiculous and counterproductive for him to appear again.

Syrio served his purpose in the story. He not only saved Arya from being captured by the Kingsguard but he thought her things that helped her survive her time at the Flea Bottom, in Riverlands and in Harrenhall. Without Syrio, Arya would be long dead. I always felt like his spirit kept on living through Arya since she keeps quoting him (and thinking about him) so often.

What if Syrio is a FM and he is who she serves her apprenticeship with? :) Then he would serve a purpose going forward...

[WildBlood]

:bang:

:bs:

[Lord Reaver]

What if Ned was a FM and he is Melisandre ?

[Lummel]

Wait... You guys hate a character in a fiction book because other people keeps mentioning him in forum threads? That sounds very odd to me. Wouldn't be easier just to skip the aforementioned threads?

<irony>

"Gee, I spend the whole day reading Jon Snow threads in westeros forum... Now I simply cannot stand the character anymore! I just hate him!"

</irony>

If you stay posting on the board for a few more years this is something you might come to understand!

What if Syrio is a FM and he is who she serves her apprenticeship with? :) Then he would serve a purpose going forward...

For everyone else, apart from Syrionites like yourself, Syrio served his purpose in getting Arya as far as he did in AGOT. With each new mentor that she has, she grows a little further, to now we see in the House of Black and White she is able to keep secrets from the Kindly Old Man, eventually in true Bildungsroman style she will become an adult with no need of close mentor figures. The idea of a reintroduction of a Syrio is to restrict Arya and box her in. Arya is a hero in this story, Syrio isn't. He's a bit of the background.

[Lord Reaver]

Wait... You guys hate a character in a fiction book because other people keeps mentioning him in forum threads? That sounds very odd to me. Wouldn't be easier just to skip the aforementioned threads?

Yes, and it would probably be healthier for me not to watch car crashes in slow motion. But both are equally impossible.