Is Syrio Forel really dead?

[King of Winters]

Well, since they ate the boar on Robert's orders, I hope he wasn't a Faceless Man.

But isn't human flesh supposed to taste like pork?

Oh well.

They would have seasoned the boar before they ate it. That's what Robert would've wanted.

Back to the subject I really hope and want Syrio to stay dead. He died so that Arya could escape, it wouldn't seem heroic if he turned out to be alive.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Yes, Syrio is dead.

[kephv]

Back to the subject I really hope and want Syrio to stay dead. He died so that Arya could escape, it wouldn't seem heroic if he turned out to be alive.

It would still be heroic (after all, he still put himself at risk for her) just slightly less so.

[Woftis]

As this is the same old argument hashed out over and over again and neither side seems willing to relent, let's add some spice.

What would be the benefit of Syrio still being alive? How would he contribute to the story at this point?

[Kahl Trollo]

As this is the same old argument hashed out over and over again and neither side seems willing to relent, let's add some spice.

What would be the benefit of Syrio still being alive? How would he contribute to the story at this point?

We could have a 'scooby doo' moment when he whips off his face and says 'And I would have gotten away with it if not for those pesky kids!'

We could have Nymeria there too, begging snacks off Hot Pie and saying 'roooby roooby doo'... it would rock.

[GhostLink]

Syrio Forel is dead as Jaqen H'ghar is dead.

"Jaqen H'ghar is dead" - Jaqen H'ghar.

[bemused]

What would Syrio contribute to the story going forward ?

As I said before, he could serve the purpose of shedding light on previous important events in Braavos. Or he could reveal that Braavos has had an eye on the Starks since Ned became Hand .. at first , perhaps, only because Ned's appointment could alter things in KL ( well ,it did that ), but as time has gone on, Starks keep turning up ,first Arya , now Jon ( even though he's "Snow" ,everyone knows he's Ned's bastard , risen to prominence in the North) ... he might become the FM " Stark " expert ...Who knows ? His purpose would only be limited by GRRM's imagination.

The point is.. George is the one who decides what importance a character has , and I'm sure he can make his decisions believable. ..It seems we all feel that the FM ( Alchemist ) in Oldtown has some future part to play , and most seem to think he was also Jaqen H'gar... so if he was also Syrio , then it's still the same purpose , however many personas he uses ...

[Direwolfsigil]

I don't see any reason for him to still be alive, he's simply a closed chapter of Arya's story.

[Mini-mitch]

I want to believe he is alive, but I am 70-80% sure he is dead.

The only bit of me that thinks he is alive comes from the WoIaF app:

• There is no entry for Syrio at all.
  
• There is Jaqen H'ghar entry.
  
• Previously, in Jaqen's entry, it states he immediately recognises, this how now been changed.
  

Assuming the entry was changed on purpose, it does tie in with the Syrio = Jaqen theory and the change could be for this very reason, to try and prevent spoilers.

Or it might have been changed to prevent people from thinking this.

[corbon]

I want to believe he is alive, but I am 70-80% sure he is dead.

The only bit of me that thinks he is alive comes from the WoIaF app:

• There is no entry for Syrio at all.
  
• There is Jaqen H'ghar entry.
  
• Previously, in Jaqen's entry, it states he immediately recognises, this how now been changed.
  

Assuming the entry was changed on purpose, it does tie in with the Syrio = Jaqen theory and the change could be for this very reason, to try and prevent spoilers.

Or it might have been changed to prevent people from thinking this.

It was probably changed because some of the blind-er readers insist that Jaqen recognising Arya is a sign he knew her previously. Instead its a simple case of observation and brains. She's heading north, goes off alone to pee, she speaks too proper too often (and probably with a northern accent) and she thinks the Lannisters are after her specifically. The Hand's daughter is missing. Its not hard to figure out who she is for someone well trained in observation and lie detection (think of Arya's training) and with basically nothing else to do.

And he didn't supposedly recognise her straight away, but after weeks of travelling.

Note also that the App is only a little more reliable that the wiki in small details. Its the best knowledge we have, put together by very smart people, and vetting by GRRM for any glaring errors. But its still put together by fans and I don;t believe GRRM would or could have spent the time to exhaustively check every little detail. Indeed, he's famous for relying on Ran to remember what colour a character's eyes are on occasion!

[anon76returns]

Indeed, he's famous for relying on Ran to remember what colour a character's eyes are on occasion!

He needs to get fully searchable electronic versions of his own books, stat!

[Zirnitra]

He is UnLiving as some parts of Ser Robert Strong. Gregor/Syrio mix for ultimate combat possibilities...

[ugashep]

Syrio Forel is the Harpy. It is known.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

GRRM would save himself a lot of aggravation if instead of the cagey answers he gave, he would say "yes he's dead". Until he does it that clearly, people will still have hope. Anyway...he's dead until we have definite evidence otherwise.

[Mikkel]

GRRM would save himself a lot of aggravation if instead of the cagey answers he gave, he would say "yes he's dead". Until he does it that clearly, people will still have hope. Anyway...he's dead until we have definite evidence otherwise.

I don't think it causes GRRM that much aggravation really. Besides, he has to stay cagey on more or less everything, or we'd know that something was probably up whenever he did it. Some things, like Ned being dead, is such a core thing to the story that any doubt about it causes more harm than good, but for the most part, leaving some things unknown is necessary, even (or especially) those things that, while never explicitly confirmed, are exactly what they appear to be - Syrio being dead is one such (IMO).

[Me262]

OK. I can see that the main problem is to establish, what could the future role be for Syrio. Sure, we can argue, whether or not he would be able to evade/defeat/run away from Trant. But in the end it is possible for Syrio to be alive.

As for the future role, here is my suggestion. Arya is training to become a FM (or FW). In the process she is losing her identity. If she finishes the training, she is dead. I do not mean physically, but Arya Stark is dead.

It would probably take a "father's figure" to stop this. To remind her, who she is. Her father is dead, other family members either dead or out of reach. The only person with enough influence remaining is Syrio. So yes, the author can bring him back to serve a purpose.

Not saying that it will happen, but this is a very convincing way to reintroduce Syrio.

[corbon]

OK. I can see that the main problem is to establish, what could the future role be for Syrio. Sure, we can argue, whether or not he would be able to evade/defeat/run away from Trant.

No the main problem is the fantasists who look only with their heart, not their eyes.

[Me262]

No the main problem is the fantasists who look only with their heart, not their eyes.

Your point being? What you just wrote, is a cliche and also usually used the other way around. (Le Petit Prince)

[Lummel]

Your point being? What you just wrote, is a cliche and also usually used the other way around. (Le Petit Prince)

The point being that Syrio is better off dead. To play with your example if Arya needs a father figure to recover a sense of identity then she is weak, the character has been unable to develop an adult strength of character - how does that play out in the context of the story as a whole?

Reading the later Arya chapters my sense was that Arya has an alternative to the Faceless Man model because of the warging and because of the Sword under the wobbly step. Besides which however weak her sense of identity with Winterfell, the North and the Starks is always going to be far stronger than Syrio's because he knows nothing (Jon Snow) of those things. He can hardly guide her there.

All of the characters have role models, most of these are dangerous and ambiguous. But for our characters to become adult they have to outgrow these mentors not remain dependant on them and incapable to move on without their help.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

My theory: Syrio is not Jaqen, but Syrio IS a FM. And now Meryn Trant.