So, now, it is wrong to tell the truth?

[polishgenius]

Something is objectifying based on someone's sex but not sexist? How does that work?

I think it's certainly possible for that to happen, but it'd be very difficult to make the argument that it's possible here.

[snowleper]

Attraction, or aesthetics doesn't necessarily have to connote to sex or gender.

Of course the idea of what is or is not sexist will always be somewhat nebulous due to ones own personal metric of consideration.

[Zoë Sumra]

I'm still not sure how saying that someone is good-looking can be sexist (if not accompanied with the common subtext/objectification that that's all there is to the person, which is not the case here.)

Good looks or lack thereof has zero bearing on this woman's ability to do her job. It would not have been mentioned were she a man (in fact, when men get this kind of talk they typically complain very loudly: see the actor who plays Don Draper in Mad Men). Therefore, sexist in assumption and execution.

[Galactus]

What context was this in?

[polishgenius]

(in fact, when men get this kind of talk they typically complain very loudly: see the actor who plays Don Draper in Mad Men).

While it's fair to say that by and large a man's reaction to this kind of comment will be different to a woman's, I don't think it's fair to say that it's 'typical' that they complain. It'd be just as possible to say they typically accept it with good grace and charm, see David Beckham.

[snowleper]

Good looks or lack thereof has zero bearing on this woman's ability to do her job. It would not have been mentioned were she a man (in fact, when men get this kind of talk they typically complain very loudly: see the actor who plays Don Draper in Mad Men). Therefore, sexist in assumption and execution.

You know, I could see Obama making this kind of statement about a man, with the same intention of being light and pseudo comedic as a counterpoint to the rest of the delivery.

Once more - it is moderately objectifying, in that personal appearance, and any judgement based on this does not help to qualify the role this person is playing, and why they deserve any recognition.

But I don't think it has any real bearing on the sex of the individual receiving the unwanted/unneeded/unnecessary compliment.

Unless the only argument here is that Obama said this because she is a woman - hence -- sexism.

But I think that is somewhat of an untenable position. Where you can demonstrate the existence of a certain amount of passive sexism in our society, but little else. (And even then, it doesn't strike me as a very easy position to defend).

[maarsen]

"Does this make me look fat?" I have learned that being truthful or not so truthful is a bad move either way. Any sensible man who wants to be taken seriously should never talk about how a woman looks no matter how gorgeous she is. Pull the tongue back in also.

[TerraPrime]

You know, I could see Obama making this kind of statement about a man, with the same intention of being light and pseudo comedic as a counterpoint to the rest of the delivery.

Do you have evidence that Obama has made similar comments about a man who works for him? In a public statement where he was commenting on this person's credential for his job and then threw in a line about how attractive and good looking this man is?

[Phaing]

Obama has a habit of making jokes and apologizing for them. Sometimes I think he does it on purpose, to win over those who would initially think of him as hyper-PC.

Very likely, and it gets the media to say something critical of him in such a way that it makes the media look bad, but not the Dear Leader.

Something is objectifying based on someone's sex but not sexist? How does that work?

By that reasoning, it would be illegal to complement someone's appearance if they are the opposite sex.

What context was this in?

I dunno, from the reactions, I would say its about a society that has over-complicated itself to the point where it is now choking to death on its own B.S.

[TerraPrime]

By that reasoning, it would be illegal to complement someone's appearance if they are the opposite sex.

The reasoning that says that objectifying someone based on their sex is a form of sexism will lead to outlawing the compliments for someone's appearance for opposite sex people? Should I even ask how? And why only opposite sex people?

[snowleper]

Do you have evidence that Obama has made similar comments about a man who works for him? In a public statement where he was commenting on this person's credential for his job and then threw in a line about how attractive and good looking this man is?

There is a difference between saying that I can see Obama doing something similar to this - where a man is the direct object of his commentary, rather than saying - Hey I have proof that Obama has done this exact same thing with a male attorney general, and I would really enjoy it if you could ask me to ante up direct evidence of this.

[Phaing]

The reasoning that says that objectifying someone based on their sex is a form of sexism will lead to outlawing the compliments for someone's appearance for opposite sex people? Should I even ask how? And why only opposite sex people?

Well, I guess it covers anybody talking about anyone then, given today's standards.

People sometimes speak their minds, no matter how taboo the PC crowd tries to make that.

Nobody has a perfect mind.

Therefore, we are open to attack, even for a compliment, if the listener is so inclined.

What do you think Obama himself would say if some lady said "nice ass," as he was walking by?

Like almost every other successful person that people look up to, the most you'd get from his is a smile, nod, and "Thank you" as he kept right one walking.

That's what people who have made something of their lives do when they get a compliment. "Thank you", and they don't let it go to their heads and they don't dwell on it in a negative or positive way. Helps them keep their head level, I reckon.

Bottom line- what people say about you does not matter, it's what you do that is important.

And how they say it is a reflection on themselves, not you.

[snowleper]

Well, I guess it covers anybody talking about anyone then, given today's standards.

People sometimes speak their minds, no matter how taboo the PC crowd tries to make that.

Nobody has a perfect mind.

Therefore, we are open to attack, even for a compliment, if the listener is so inclined.

What do you think Obama himself would say if some lady said "nice ass," as he was walking by?

Like almost every other successful person that people look up to, the most you'd get from his is a smile, nod, and "Thank you" as he kept right one walking.

That's what people who have made something of their lives do when they get a compliment. "Thank you", and they don't let it go to their heads and they don't dwell on it in a negative or positive way. Helps them keep their head level, I reckon.

Bottom line- what people say about you does not matter, it's what you do that is important.

And how they say it is a reflection on themselves, not you.

I was supportive of what you were saying earlier un-Che, but you kind of lost me with the rest.

To qualify Obama's ass (and who doesn't like to qualify Obama ass) -- Barack mentioned sometime ago that he was irritated by all the women who grab his ass at his political rallies -- to which Michelle said something along the sarcastic tone of, 'yeah right'

At any rate, there is too much strange ringing bias going on in your post and not enough objective assessment.

First of all - what in the world do you mean by the comment about how 'successful' people shrug off sexual harassment?

That is such an oddly loaded argument. Is successes really what is at issue now?

And do you really want the completion of this dichotomy to be that only unsuccessful people - or possibly unattractive people make a big deal out of being objectified - harassed, or groped in some manner?

[TrackerNeil]

By that reasoning, it would be illegal to complement someone's appearance if they are the opposite sex.

Yes, I am certain that's what TerraPrime was getting at, and I'll go one further. Let's not only illegalize this behavior; let's punish it with death by stoning.

Setting sarcasm aside, I think there is a WORLD of difference between some dude complimenting a server in a restaurant and the President of the United States remarking publicly upon the physical attractiveness of California's attorney general. If you can't see that, I'm afraid there is nothing I can do about it.

[polishgenius]

I think there is a WORLD of difference between some dude complimenting a server in a restaurant and the President of the United States remarking publicly upon the physical attractiveness of California's attorney general. If you can't see that, I'm afraid there is nothing I can do about it.

Yeah; the President probably knows the attorney general at least a little bit and is therefore more likely to know if she's cool with it than a bloke with some random server in a restaurant.

[TerraPrime]

Yeah; the President probably knows the attorney general at least a little bit and is therefore more likely to know if she's cool with it than a bloke with some random server in a restaurant.

Yes, and he should also have known about the sexism that professional women experience in their jobs, which include such comments about their physical appearance. To utter such a phrase is, imo, a severe faux-pas on Obama's part and indicate a lack of judgment on this issue. He might have meant it as an inside joke, or a Poe's Law thing, but he should have known better even if that were his intention.

[snowleper]

Setting sarcasm aside, I think there is a WORLD of difference between some dude complimenting a server in a restaurant and the President of the United States remarking publicly upon the physical attractiveness of California's attorney general. If you can't see that, I'm afraid there is nothing I can do about it.

Yes, there is a certain amount of classism involved here, with what seems like a passive notion that it is acceptable to treat a waitress in a disrespectful manner - or it is assumed that you can, but that a passing comment from the president towards somebody who isn't even a direct work colleague of his is somehow much more socially relevant.

[polishgenius]

Yes, and he should also have known about the sexism that professional women experience in their jobs, which include such comments about their physical appearance. To utter such a phrase is, imo, a severe faux-pas on Obama's part and indicate a lack of judgment on this issue. He might have meant it as an inside joke, or a Poe's Law thing, but he should have known better even if that were his intention.

I don't disagree that he should know better than to create the issue. But that's a different discussion to whether this should actually be an issue.

I think it's all part of his ongoing mission to be as much like Jed Bartlett as possible, tbh.

[TerraPrime]

Bottom line- what people say about you does not matter, it's what you do that is important.

And how they say it is a reflection on themselves, not you.

That explanation doesn't make any sense regarding the original question, which is, how do you get from me saying that objectifying someone based ontheir sex is a form of sexism to making illegal all compliments to people of the opposite sex. I see a lot of hand-waving, and obfuscation, and provision of platitudes (sticks and stones will break your bones but words never will! If you are insulted by someone's words it's only because you let them be insulting. You have the power to refuse to be insulted. blah blah fucking redium blah) but no real explanation. You named two points and stated that they are connected; now, please explain how the two are connected.

[Sheogorath]

Shouldn't the issue be about how it made Kamala Harris feel? The media made a huge issue out of it and missed the point. I am speaking for myself alone, but I would have been embarrassed Some people mind some don't. I just know it would have been a bad time to be made uncomfortable.