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zaphodbrx

[Book spoilers]Locke

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The simplest way is to have Lord Karstark, instead of Locke, cut his hand and thus, Robb has to execute him to prevent Sansa being maimed.

Lord Karstark, however, seems to be going to Riverrun. If Locke takes Jaime to Riverrun instead of Harrenhal, though, that's easily arranged. It would explain Robb's line about 'I could have your head in a spike' or something like that, while still allowing the Lannister-Bolton alliance.

Yeah I was wondering who Robb was saying that to. I think what's going to happen is Karstark continues to talk smack about Talisa and maybe he openly threatens her or puts hands on her causing Robb to go chop chop.

With Locke, the easiest way to do this is to have Jaime steal a sword and kill one or two of his men forcing him to take the hand. I imagine this would happen when Brienne is about to be raped/killed by Locke's men.

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-And yes, I did find it out of character for Jamie to kill -not only one of his kin- but someone who hero worshipped him a minute ago, for basically no reason. He could just have told Alton to pretend dead instead.

Go back to season 1, episode 1. listen to what he says to Cersei

Jamie cares about 2 things. Himself and cersei. everyone else is expendable

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With Locke, the easiest way to do this is to have Jaime steal a sword and kill one or two of his men forcing him to take the hand. I imagine this would happen when Brienne is about to be raped/killed by Locke's men.

Locke could just take it off out off spite, we really don't know enough about his character. I could see him being just a spiteful person and have no idea Bolton is going to side with the Lannisters. As for Tywin's anger, wasn't he kind of relieved (yet obviously still furious) about Jaime's hand because then he could resign from the KG and take his place at Casterly Rock? Could give his's character premise to forgive Bolton especially after RW and him bending the knee.

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Go back to season 1, episode 1. listen to what he says to Cersei

Jamie cares about 2 things. Himself and cersei. everyone else is expendable

I would put it this way: Jamie only loves two things, Cerscei and his Sword, everything else is unimportant to him.

His image and reputation as a skilled knight is something he cares about very much.

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Locke could just take it off out off spite, we really don't know enough about his character. I could see him being just a spiteful person and have no idea Bolton is going to side with the Lannisters. As for Tywin's anger, wasn't he kind of relieved (yet obviously still furious) about Jaime's hand because then he could resign from the KG and take his place at Casterly Rock? Could give his's character premise to forgive Bolton especially after RW and him bending the knee.

Remember that this is a man who went to war against the Riverlands simply because their Lords daughter had taken his son Prisoner, despite the fact that he wouldnt mind the death of Tyrion. The most important thing to Tywin is the status of house Lannister.

"if another house can mutilate one of our own, with impunity, we are no longer a house to be feared"

Tywin would never let a lesser house like Bolton get away with cutting off the hand of his oldest son. Its a slight too big to be ignored, and he knows that it will affect how other houses think of House Lannister if he doesnt retaliate.

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Remember that this is a man who went to war against the Riverlands simply because their Lords daughter had taken his son Prisoner, despite the fact that he wouldnt mind the death of Tyrion. The most important thing to Tywin is the status of house Lannister.

"if another house can mutilate one of our own, with impunity, we are no longer a house to be feared"

Tywin would never let a lesser house like Bolton get away with cutting off the hand of his oldest son. Its a slight too big to be ignored, and he knows that it will affect how other houses think of them if he doesnt retaliate.

Maybe Roose will flay Locke and send his skin to Tywin as a gesture of good faith?

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Maybe Roose will flay Locke and send his skin to Tywin as a gesture of good faith?

He would no doubt have to do something like that to make up for it. If Tywin simply lets it go in the show without any gesture from the boltons that activley distances them from what locke did, it will be too much character assasination for me to continue watching the show.

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i think the most clever resolution would be if Roose sent Locke as a prisoner along with Jamie and Qyburn on their way to Kings Landing, to allow the Lannisters to execute their Revenge themselves. Locke could then be given to Qyburn as a subject for his experiments, to introduce the TV-Audience to his dark side.

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I would put it this way: Jamie only loves two things, Cerscei and his Sword, everything else is unimportant to him.

His image and reputation as a skilled knight is something he cares about very much.

He cares about Tyrion, too.

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I would put it this way: Jamie only loves two things, Cerscei and his Sword, everything else is unimportant to him.

His image and reputation as a skilled knight is something he cares about very much.

I really don't think he cares about his reputation otherwise he would've told more people about the wildfire plot. He'd still be the scumbag kingslayer in the eyes of the realm, but with a bit less vinegar when they say it.

And I still wouldn't put it past show or book Jaime to kill a prisoner cousin who hero-worshiped him if it came to his benefit. especially before meeting brienne. he didn't really remember this show lannister cousin.

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Though it's not a super huge deal, I think it does detract a little that the man who cuts off Jaime's hand was not Vargo (or someone like him).

From ASOS: Jaime: "Had I hand, I'd write it out for you. How I was maimed by the sellsword my own father brought to Westeros, and saved by the noble Lord Bolton."

Then when Tywin sees Jaime for the first time, he reacts by saying "Who did this? If Lady Catelyn thinks..."

But Jaime says, "This was your goat's work..." and Tywin backs off.

I'm not sure how Roose avoids the blame if his bannerman maims Jaime.

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It works as long as Locke does it before he arrives at Harrenhall.

By the way, as others have said what happens to Locke? In the books Vargo is left "Lord of Harrenhall" but the castle is quickly taken back by The Mountain and he dies a very painful death having his limbs cut off one by one.

So, I could see the writers playing up the sadistic nature of Roose having him come back and flaying Locke for being disobedient.

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Exactly. If Lord Tywin can have loose cannons such as Gregor Clegane (smashing Elia and her children), why can't Roose Bolton have exactly the same problem? Don't forget that Book Roose knows nothing about Hoat chopping off Jaime's hand until Hoat brings Jaime and Brienne back to Harrenhal, and their journey lasts nearly a week. Hoat in turn doesn't know of the Roose/Tywin plot, so he has no idea that returning a maimed Kinglsayer is going to cause problems. When he finds out what has been done, Roose worries about Tywin's reaction because in the meantime, he has jumped ship. So we get that 'delicate' dinner table conversation where Jaime assures Roose that if he is returned safely to KL, he will tell his father whatever story Roose wants.

I can't see why that basic scenario shouldn't play out just as well with a loose cannon Locke instead of Hoat. Simplifying the story this way is probably one of the easiest and most sensible alterations from book to screen.

I thought Hoat had Jaime's hand sliced off to create tension between Tywin and Roose, because he suspected that Roose was planning to defect?

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Aren't they going to have the bear fight scene with Brienne? Maybe Jaime loses his hand fighting the bear - then Bolton and Locke are off the hook with Tywin.

Suggest you look at the trailers so far, and you will see: 1. Jaime screaming in agony (probably end of Ep 3) where he loses his hand. 2. A later trailer with a glimpse of the Harrenhal bath scene 3. Glimpses of bearpit scene where Jaime has already lost his hand. In short, they are going to follow the essential elements of the books in terms of the Jaime/Brienne story arc this season.

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3. Glimpses of bearpit scene where Jaime has already lost his hand.

I haven't seen the trailers yet, but is it already confirmed there that Jaime is missing one hand? Before reading this post, my theory about Locke replacing Vargo Hoat is that Jaime's sword hand would be flayed instead of being cut. It is within character for a Bolton to do and I think it would be easier to show a flayed hand than a missing hand in a TV show.

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Though it's not a super huge deal, I think it does detract a little that the man who cuts off Jaime's hand was not Vargo (or someone like him).

From ASOS: Jaime: "Had I hand, I'd write it out for you. How I was maimed by the sellsword my own father brought to Westeros, and saved by the noble Lord Bolton."

Then when Tywin sees Jaime for the first time, he reacts by saying "Who did this? If Lady Catelyn thinks..."

But Jaime says, "This was your goat's work..." and Tywin backs off.

I'm not sure how Roose avoids the blame if his bannerman maims Jaime.

Roose will definitely kill Locke, probably via bearpit OR (how bout this) flaying him and THEN bear pit!

ETA: Then how does Brienne find her way into the pit if Locke is already dead? Eh...

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I haven't seen the trailers yet, but is it already confirmed there that Jaime is missing one hand? Before reading this post, my theory about Locke replacing Vargo Hoat is that Jaime's sword hand would be flayed instead of being cut. It is within character for a Bolton to do and I think it would be easier to show a flayed hand than a missing hand in a TV show.

This, along with reports from various people who have seen screeners, confirms that Jaime loses the hand.

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Hopefully they keep Jaime being forced to wear his rotting hand around his neck. It's unpleasant as hell and intensely jacked up, and really showed the Brave Companion's warped sense of humor, along with their "re-enactment" of the Bear and Maiden Fair later.

Jaime jumping into the pit with Brienne even though he knew he didn't have a chance in hell without his hand was a fantastic moment, I'm pretty sure they'll keep it in. Changing Locke to a Bolton man is a little odd considering how events go down, but if they show Roose having a negative reaction to his treatment of Jaime and punishing him it'll probably be understandable that Roose still gets a pardon.

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