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Ser Milo of House Mog

(BOOK SPOILER) TOWER OF JOY

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D&D and HBO are not waiting around for the books, that has been stated already, so its likely you are going to see stuff from WoW/ADOS on TV before the next two books come out, unless George gets out 2 books before the next five years.

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they probably won't be waiting around with material thas already been in print .....they might intertwine bits of books 4and 5....but they would never undercut Martin and out the rest of the story before the last 2 books are in print....

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D&D and HBO are not waiting around for the books, that has been stated already, so its likely you are going to see stuff from WoW/ADOS on TV before the next two books come out, unless George gets out 2 books before the next five years.

Well this sucks. I do not plan on watching the show once it surpasses the books. I am sure we will get TWoW by the time the show gets to that point in the story, but definitely not ADOS. They should have waited longer to start the show, but then again we would not have had this awesome cast we have now.

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Jojen: "When I told my father about your father, it was the first time in my life I saw him cry.

Bran: "Your father is Howland Reed."

Jojen: "Yeah"

Bran: "Saved my father's life during the rebellion."

Jojen: "Your father told you about the rebellion? Mine never did. But I saw that too."

Bran: "What else have you seen?"

Jojen: "The only thing that matters: You."

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I'd have to watch the scene again....but when Bran tells Jojen that Howland saved his father .....he prceeds to tell bran that he saw it through a dream and that his father never told him of the incident.....i do n't th ink he was talking about the rebellion in general.....I'd have to watch the scene again....

Yes, definitely watch it again cause that's not what happened at all :)

He says he saw Ned die, then Bran says Ned told him about how Howland saved his life once, and Jojen says he saw the Rebellion; doesn't specify seeing Reed save Ned.

edit: Moet's post clears that all up rather nicely

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It's just me. But I hope for a full Robert's rebellion episode, where it will reveal everything that has happened.

Much like a lot of shows do, a one off.

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they probably won't be waiting around with material thas already been in print .....they might intertwine bits of books 4and 5....but they would never undercut Martin and out the rest of the story before the last 2 books are in print....

Umm, no. They said the show keeps going, for business reasons they are not putting things on hold or going on hiatus. I am sure HBO would like the books done, but they won't stop. George is the one who gives them the major plot points anyways.

Maybe the books come out before that point, that is the far future, but if they don't, the show is not going to go on hold.

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they probably won't be waiting around with material thas already been in print .....they might intertwine bits of books 4and 5....but they would never undercut Martin and out the rest of the story before the last 2 books are in print....

Exactly! :agree:

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Seems pretty vague to me, he saw the rebellion, the rebellion was a lot more than 10 men engaging in the most epic battle of unknown history.

and Jojen seems pretty driven to get Bran North and help him.

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Umm, no. They said the show keeps going, for business reasons they are not putting things on hold or going on hiatus. I am sure HBO would like the books done, but they won't stop. George is the one who gives them the major plot points anyways.

Maybe the books come out before that point, that is the far future, but if they don't, the show is not going to go on hold.

If the HBO series surpasses where we're at in the books, I'm going to be pretty upset. Now I am NOT a book purist by any means and in many threads I've defended changes made to the story or characters by the show series. I've tried to calm down many people who claim "character assassination" or how certain scenes were pointless or stupid. But I draw the line at having the show become the only defining plot of the entire epic saga! I've been reading the books since the mid-90s when they first came out, that's a LONG time for many of us to be waiting for the conclusion of something we've cherished for almost 20 years. I don't want HBO being the only thing I have to find out how everything plays out by their definition or perspective, as good as the acting and directing are, I want the BOOK to be finished!!

C'mon George, you can't leave us hanging like this while the HBO steam train is chugging down the track faster and faster!!

I probably derailed the topic --- haha I made a funny...derailed, steam train, get it? ;)

All joking aside. I desperately want to have the Tower of Joy mystery revealed but I want the GRRM book or books to finish the Song of Ice and Fire saga, not HBO.

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I think the first we might see of the new book is 6 months after the release of the paperback for the last book......handicapped by opportunity to cross promote the HBO series-New book at same time for reasons of max greed. That is a dose of reality outside of GRRM's fantasy world that he might have the least to say about. If it ain't here now then my guess is next year's HBO Season.

On topic... there will never be a flashback for actors that had not been cast. They are just spinning in dialog due to Jojen's late arrival. Lucky if it is mentioned at all in a recounting between one character to another just like we saw this week

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Yes, definitely watch it again cause that's not what happened at all :)

He says he saw Ned die, then Bran says Ned told him about how Howland saved his life once, and Jojen says he saw the Rebellion; doesn't specify seeing Reed save Ned.

edit: Moet's post clears that all up rather nicely

to me that's kind of silly everybody saw the whole rebellion....it's in the history books....Jojen wasn't even born yet during the rebellion....it's not like it took a great feat to see the rebellion.....it was such a pivotal point in history and lasted a few years....how can he see the whole rebellion....and if he saw the whole rebellion ....that would mean he saw what happend to Ned at the tower of joy.....that was part of the rebellion no??

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to me that's kind of silly everybody saw the whole rebellion....it's in the history books....Jojen wasn't even born yet during the rebellion....it's not like it took a great feat to see the rebellion.....it was such a pivotal point in history and lasted a few years....how can he see the whole rebellion....and if he saw the whole rebellion ....that would mean he saw what happend to Ned at the tower of joy.....that was part of the rebellion no??

I personally think this is where we're likely to get the ToJ info, from the Reeds, and from Bran becoming ...... better. Meera makes a brief mention of the ToJ in the books, so I see no problem with her getting the info via Jojen and his talents, that way Howland remains true to whatever promise he made to Ned.

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I don't get how Jojen could have seen what happened at the ToJ. Green dreams are prophetic dreams of what is to come. I'm not even sure if show Jojen has the ability to access weirwood trees, but I don't think there are any at the ToJ.

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I don't get how Jojen could have seen what happened at the ToJ. Green dreams are prophetic dreams of what is to come. I'm not even sure if show Jojen has the ability to access weirwood trees, but I don't think there are any at the ToJ.

Jojen doesn't have access to the trees, nor do I think he has the power to control what he sees. He just sees, kinda like Mel. So Jojen happened to see parts of the Rebellion over the years.

Bran on the other hand will be able to control his vision/warging and eventually escape the trees in order to see throughout the realm/earth

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to me that's kind of silly everybody saw the whole rebellion....it's in the history books....Jojen wasn't even born yet during the rebellion....it's not like it took a great feat to see the rebellion.....it was such a pivotal point in history and lasted a few years....how can he see the whole rebellion....and if he saw the whole rebellion ....that would mean he saw what happend to Ned at the tower of joy.....that was part of the rebellion no??

I think you're contradicting yourself, at least to the point where I don't really know what it is you are trying to say

Everyone that was present 'saw' it yes, but from a first person pov

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The history books are kinda irrelevant to him seeing it, unless he's just got a vivid imagination (like mine is when I read ASOIAF, but I highly doubt that's what they meant)

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Correct

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Um, I believe seeing a huge historical event that occurred before you were born is a great feat

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Also yes

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Like I said in my previous post, he is granted visions. He just sees it, like Mel. Perhaps in bits and pieces, which may validate the claim that we may get some ToJ info through him, but that's all speculation

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Perhaps he saw what happened to Ned, again this wasn't clarified in their dialogue

...

Yes, I guess you can say it was part of it sure

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What is a "Tower of Joy"??? sounds dirty.

Where Prince Rhaegar Targaryen took Lyanna Stark and had a romantic year or so. It's also where Howland Reed saved Ned Stark's life.

Go HERE - but warning: major books spoilers, although most of it happened in GoT.

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Actually if you google Tower of Joy, you will see a very good flashback from Ned, from season one that was cut. It uses sketches and a narrator,but it is very good. They don't even have to cast for anyone.

So I googled it and found one that uses sketches and a narrator.... but it was not from season one that was cut. It was fanmade. If there is another official one around can you link?

Really enjoyed it however. Very well done and have sent it to others.

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