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[Book Spoilers] Brynden Tully and Edmure Tully should have been introduced waaaay earlier

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I really liked how both of them were played. Really good. I never imagined Blackfish beinng so tall, but whatever.

The only gripe about their first showing I have is not actually about how they are played, but the writing and skipping - when I read that scene of Robb and Blackfish shaming Edmure for his victory over the Mountain, that was extremely powerful to me, mainly because I was invested in that battle when we "saw" it in Cat's POV, and when that turned out to be a big blunder - I was feeling ashamed too, because I was kinda rooting for Edmure when that thing happened, and then I started to appreciate Robb's strategic thought even more.

Here it all feels so....rushed. Doesn't have that emotional impact. So ok, right off the bat we are basically told that Robb's uncle is an asshole who thinks just because he is senior in age and relative, he can disobey a direct order of his king, because he blundered somewhere sometime. Big deal. But in the books - I felt ashamed myself. I really felt the strategic superiority of Blackfish and Robb, because I was so invested in the wrong decision.

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I've stated to friends the shows should be 12 episodes a season rather than 10 and we'd have a bit more room to breathe but the simple fact is the books are being condensed and things suffer. On the other hand, the show opens up new things like, "How do the Riverlords feel about trading one king for another?'

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too many characters being introduced at one time is very bad. My brother is the one who got me into the show, which after the first season I decided to read all the books... then i lost my social life. However my point is that if the show introduces too many characters at once than the TV show fans would become way more confused. My brother for example, I have to constantly tell him who is who during the show because he is getting really confused between all the new (and old) characters. So therefore I disagree with you in regards to Brynden and Edmure being introduced too late.

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Yeah, if the Tullys had been introduced in previous seasons there would have been too many characters to keep going. Even at the moment major characters have to skip episodes and that will only get worse and then keeping the minor characters' actors on the books for multiple series is hard enough already

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I didn't like one thing; if they're going to show Edmure as blundering more often than he does in the books - and taking flak for it from others - they should show Catelyn as the one who comforts him. In character, and she was fond of him in the books.

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They should have had the Blackfish since Catelyn's time in the Vale. After the turmoil at Tyrion's trial he leaves Lysa's service for the Lady Stark.

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I agree that you just can't put everything from the books into the show. It gets confusing, especially since a large amount of viewers are not reading the books and are not going to read them. I like how they were introduced on the show.

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I really liked how both of them were played. Really good. I never imagined Blackfish beinng so tall, but whatever.

The only gripe about their first showing I have is not actually about how they are played, but the writing and skipping - when I read that scene of Robb and Blackfish shaming Edmure for his victory over the Mountain, that was extremely powerful to me, mainly because I was invested in that battle when we "saw" it in Cat's POV, and when that turned out to be a big blunder - I was feeling ashamed too, because I was kinda rooting for Edmure when that thing happened, and then I started to appreciate Robb's strategic thought even more.

Here it all feels so....rushed. Doesn't have that emotional impact. So ok, right off the bat we are basically told that Robb's uncle is an asshole who thinks just because he is senior in age and relative, he can disobey a direct order of his king, because he blundered somewhere sometime. Big deal. But in the books - I felt ashamed myself. I really felt the strategic superiority of Blackfish and Robb, because I was so invested in the wrong decision.

Wasn't it a victory over Tywin whole army in the books? Not just the Mountain. It was about drawing Tywin west so he couldn't defend King's Landing from Stannis, not about getting the Mountain's head on a stake. I didn't like how poor Edmure wasn't even appreciated for taking two little Lannisters as captives. I think the Lannisters care much more about these kids than they'd care about the Mountain. I also wondered how the Blackfish would know about Robb's plans in the show, while Edmure didn't. Didn't meet Robb those two guys at the same time then? Why keep the most important of the Tully's in the dark? It made much more sense in the books, when Blackfish was with Robb much earlier.

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I actually think the confusion about Robb's plot makes more sense if Robb and Edmure have not already met before and Robb had not chance to tell him about it, so Edmure did what he thought was necessary. In the books where Robb fails to explain the plan to him, it is a little silly.

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yeah the one thing thats impossible to do on a show is have a brief scene or two with a character that will have a bigger role in a future season. just way to hard to hold on to the actor, that its way better to just write around it

I actually think the confusion about Robb's plot makes more sense if Robb and Edmure have not already met before and Robb had not chance to tell him about it, so Edmure did what he thought was necessary. In the books where Robb fails to explain the plan to him, it is a little silly.

yeah i think so, although this reflects very badly on robb. he apparently expected edmure to guess his plan

Wasn't it a victory over Tywin whole army in the books? Not just the Mountain. It was about drawing Tywin west so he couldn't defend King's Landing from Stannis, not about getting the Mountain's head on a stake.

yeah thats how it went down but book robb was a lot smarter

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Here it all feels so....rushed. Doesn't have that emotional impact. So ok, right off the bat we are basically told that Robb's uncle is an asshole who thinks just because he is senior in age and relative, he can disobey a direct order of his king, because he blundered somewhere sometime. Big deal. But in the books - I felt ashamed myself. I really felt the strategic superiority of Blackfish and Robb, because I was so invested in the wrong decision.

Robb and Brycen weren't strategically superior. They simply wanted to get some dirt on Edmure so they could force him to make up for Robb's mistake of marrying Jeyne and gave Edmure really vague orders, something they shouldn't have done. Edmure is simply their scapegoat. Robb and Brycen's plan rested on Tywin being stupid enough to march his army into an area where he couldn't move his cavalry properly, something I don't see him doing. Then there's the fact the Tyrell host alone outnumbered Stannis a lot at King's Landing, so Edmure's successful defense of his lands, while it helped, wasn't decisive to the success of the defense of King's Landing. Giving up easily defendable positions immediately without any bloodshed isn't a sound tactical move, either.

Then there's the whole 'ohh the messengers reached him in time because he stopped them.' Guys, a messenger moves a lot faster than an army, it wouldn't have mattered much if they had marched a few miles further before the messengers reached them. Plus Edmure gained Robb more time to keep pillaging the Westerlands.

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They should have had the Blackfish since Catelyn's time in the Vale. After the turmoil at Tyrion's trial he leaves Lysa's service for the Lady Stark.

They could have added him there, but it would have mostly been throwaway because the focus was on Tyrion and Catelyn as well as Lysa's mental state.

I'm fine with bringing them in when they did, while it would have been nice to see them earlier, it didn't cost anything to have them added in when they did.

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yeah i think so, although this reflects very badly on robb. he apparently expected edmure to guess his plan

Yep, that is stupid on Robb's part.

yeah thats how it went down but book robb was a lot smarter

He was. That is also true about Jon.

I'm fine with bringing them in when they did, while it would have been nice to see them earlier, it didn't cost anything to have them added in when they did.

I agree. The show has probably a hundred characters by now (no idea, I have not counted them :P), so they really need to include whom they really need and no characters that might or might not become important two seasons later.

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While it's not waaaay earlier, I think that the Tullys should have been introduced last episode instead of this episode. So much of episode 1 and 2 could have been combined to make one awesome premier so the news of Hoster's death could have been in E1. But I'm fine with delaying them till season 3. The show has way too many characters to keep track of.

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I understand the need to limit cast numbers and story lines, and therefore the need to delay the appearance of the Tully's. It's a change that is regrettable, but understandable to me.

It was a bit off kilter to have Robb talking to Edmure like they have known each other for years when as far as we know TV wise they just met for the first time. It also begs the question of what was the Blackfish doing while Edmure was attacking the Mountain? He wasn't with Robb, and it seems odd that he would be chastising Edmure now, if he was part of that attack...

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Wasn't it a victory over Tywin whole army in the books? Not just the Mountain. It was about drawing Tywin west so he couldn't defend King's Landing from Stannis, not about getting the Mountain's head on a stake. I didn't like how poor Edmure wasn't even appreciated for taking two little Lannisters as captives. I think the Lannisters care much more about these kids than they'd care about the Mountain. I also wondered how the Blackfish would know about Robb's plans in the show, while Edmure didn't. Didn't meet Robb those two guys at the same time then? Why keep the most important of the Tully's in the dark? It made much more sense in the books, when Blackfish was with Robb much earlier.

Yeah the point was to draw everyone West. Once the Mountain got held up, Tywin turned around and went to King's Landing.

The show made it seem like Edmure had orders from Robb and deliberately disobeyed them in order to save a mill and win himself some glory.

The book made it seem like Edmure did not know the orders and made an effort to defend his land, which backfired Robb's plan.

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I've stated to friends the shows should be 12 episodes a season rather than 10 and we'd have a bit more room to breathe but the simple fact is the books are being condensed and things suffer. On the other hand, the show opens up new things like, "How do the Riverlords feel about trading one king for another?'

It's got little to do with how many episodes there are, even if there were 20 episodes per season. At some point there are just too many characters for the viewers to remember - that's why they delayed introducing them.

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