Syrio Foral Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Again, that explains Talisa's reaction but it does not explain how she got away with it.I do not dislike unrealistic events, I dislike events which are not consistent with the established realism of the series. ASOIAF, and GOT both portray events realistically and even when events are unrealistic they're grounded and deconstructed. Talisa is a glaring exception which is (one reason) why I dislike her.Dude, some parts of realistic, but this is a fantasy series. Lady Stoneheart is not real. Dragons are not real. Shadowbabies are not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I do not dislike unrealistic events, I dislike events which are not consistent with the established realism of the series. ASOIAF, and GOT both portray events realistically and even when events are unrealistic they're grounded and deconstructed. Talisa is a glaring exception which is (one reason) why I dislike her.Fair enough. I will not argue that it's inconsistent to some degree, although, to me, show Westeros seems a bit less unforgiving than it does in the books. I just felt there were also some relatively inconsistent things that happened in the books, but I just want people to judge both mediums fairly if they're going to compare the two :)Dude, some parts of realistic, but this is a fantasy series. Lady Stoneheart is not real. Dragons are not real. Shadowbabies are not real.That's not really fair. Dragons and magic are set precedents that the show and books work within. His argument is that the precedents set within this imagined world are not being held to a standard in which the characters are able to interact within the world realistically. My argument about Arya was that within Westeros, she's beyond lucky to survive, and thus it's not that unrealistic that Talisa could manage it either. Realism within aSoIaF is different from the reality of our world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Dude, some parts of realistic, but this is a fantasy series. Lady Stoneheart is not real. Dragons are not real. Shadowbabies are not real.Did you read my post? I dislike it only when events go against the established realism of the series. This series always grounds things, even the magic. For example magic consistently has a cost in this series. Cat loses her sanity and her soul after being resurrected, dragons need Khal Drogo's sacrifice to wake them and the shadow babies are draining Stannis' life-force. And likewise peasants in this series are consistently brutalised, ignored by nobility and trampled under foot. Talisa is not consistent with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrio Foral Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Did you read my post? I dislike it only when events go against the established realism of the series. This series always grounds things, even the magic. For example magic consistently has a cost in this series. Cat loses her sanity and her soul after being resurrected, dragons need Khal Drogo's sacrifice to wake them and the shadow babies are draining Stannis' life-force. And likewise peasants in this series are consistently brutalised, ignored by nobility and trampled under foot. Talisa is not consistent with this.Okay, you may have a point, but other fantasy works have peasants marrying royal people all the time. For example, this poor peasant girl Cinderella married a prince despite of her step family. It might not be realistic in this type of work, (though that can be argued) but it has worked in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Was there a sacrifice of sorts or payment for dragons initially being in existence? I agree that the whole only death pays for life and magic has its due thing, but before they dragons were all killed, I wonder if there was some sort of correlating payment for them existing. Or did they simply exist and then to animate them a price needed to be paid? This is grossly off-topic so I'll just add that this episode has the makings to be even better than the last. I think Cogman is superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBadgerlock Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 We're talking about the initial Robb/Talisa meet scene from an episode a season and a half ago. It wasn't done especially well but it served it's purpose as far as getting Robb to take interest enough to eventually fall in love with a girl he had never met before. If we take away that scene and all of it's "sassiness" (which has been extremely overblown, the nurse was in the middle of a on-field amputation and got a little snappy with people she shouldn't have, excuse her for not observing all the social niceities in the moment), then I don't think the character has been that egregious a deviation. She's been extremely dutiful and appropriately deferential in all situations since then. She and Robb clearly enjoy each other's company and everyone around Robb begrudgingly accepts her as his wife now that they're married.We can agree that she wasn't introduced in the best way. Now it's time to move on. She's fine doing what she's doing. There's no need to continually harp on this over and over a season and a half later.I agree, mostly.I saw S2 before reading the books and honestly prefer Talisa & Robb to Jeyne & Robb. Talisa actually has a personality, and although there wasn't a heap of time to establish their relationship, you can see why these two characters might have an interest in the other. The whole "marry her to save her honour" thing was never going to work on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cookie Monster Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Okay, you may have a point, but other fantasy works have peasants marrying royal people all the time. For example, this poor peasant girl Cinderella married a prince despite of her step family. It might not be realistic in this type of work, (though that can be argued) but it has worked in others.This is funny. You still don't get his point, but yet what you said is pretty much what he means. His problem is not that Talisa isn't realistic with EVERY story. His problem is that Talisa is NOT realistic with THIS story. Talisa doesn't fit and is unrealistic in the world of both GoT and ASoIaF. She would fit perfectly fine in a Cinderella story, or a Sleeping Beauty kind of thing, where a noble lady becomes a peasant and then the prince falls in love with her regardless of her sasiness and apparent social status. If this was a Cinderella story or a fairy tale nobody would have any problems with her, but GoT has already shown that it is NEITHER a Cinderella story NOR a fairy tale. Talisa breaks and doesn't follow the rules and reality that GoT has already stablished. For me is like if GoT was a puzzle that you are assembling, and then you put Talisa (who is a piece of ANOTHER puzzle) in it. It is a normal piece, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it just DOESN'T FIT and DOESN'T BELONG in THIS puzzle, it belongs and fits in ANOTHER puzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 This is funny. You still don't get his point, but yet what you said is pretty much what he means. His problem is not that Talisa isn't realistic with EVERY story. His problem is that Talisa is NOT realistic with THIS story. Talisa doesn't fit and is unrealistic in the world of both GoT and ASoIaF. She would fit perfectly fine in a Cinderella story, or a Sleeping Beauty kind of thing, where a noble lady becomes a peasant and then the prince falls in love with her regardless of her sasiness and apparent social status. If this was a Cinderella story or a fairy tale nobody would have any problems with her, but GoT has already shown that it is NEITHER a Cinderella story NOR a fairy tale. Talisa breaks and doesn't follow the rules and reality that GoT has already stablished. For me is like if GoT was a puzzle that you are assembling, and then you put Talisa (who is a piece of ANOTHER puzzle) in it. It is a normal piece, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it just DOESN'T FIT and DOESN'T BELONG in THIS puzzle, it belongs and fits in ANOTHER puzzle.Thank you, couldn't have put it any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Two new picture from Episode 5 (Selyse Florent)http://24.media.tumb...xciqbo1_500.jpghttp://24.media.tumblr.com/b283207ba5c12071299e8d0b2da43f38/tumblr_mlyo6qgnZh1rxciqbo1_1280.jpg :ack: :bang: :tantrum: :owned: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck88 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Two new picture from Episode 5 (Selyse Florent)http://24.media.tumb...xciqbo1_500.jpghttp://24.media.tumb...ciqbo1_1280.jpg :ack: :bang: :tantrum: :owned:Saw those myself. What the-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Two new picture from Episode 5 (Selyse Florent)http://24.media.tumb...xciqbo1_500.jpghttp://24.media.tumb...ciqbo1_1280.jpg :ack: :bang: :tantrum: :owned:This doesnt actually look like GoT at all, more like a science fiction thing. You sure this from the episode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cookie Monster Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 This doesnt actually look like GoT at all, more like a science fiction thing. You sure this from the episode?I hope not. WTF??!! are those? :stillsick:.............. I really hope the show doesn't go that way. I hope you're right and is just some other sci-fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I hope not. WTF??!! are those? :stillsick:.............. I really hope the show doesn't go that way.I suppose its her stillborn children, if it indeed is GoT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cookie Monster Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I suppose its her stillborn children, if it indeed is GoTYeah that's what it looks like, but It's still very creepy, weird, disgusting and WTF if truth be told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loras Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Wow. Those pictures are... unexpected. I actually quite like it though. I hope that they use this to try and make Selyse seem sympathetic rather than batshit crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm literally so done with this show. I just... Wow. That's some fucked up shit.(Not in a good way.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cookie Monster Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Wow. Those pictures are... unexpected. I actually quite like it though. I hope that they use this to try and make Selyse seem sympathetic rather than batshit crazy!And how exactly, pray excuse, would this make her more sympathetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Oh dear God. What have they done to Selyse based on those images? In the series she isn't nice...but she isn't insane either. I hate to judge based on pictures...but oh lord. Don't like this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Two new picture from Episode 5 (Selyse Florent)http://24.media.tumb...xciqbo1_500.jpghttp://24.media.tumb...ciqbo1_1280.jpg :ack: :bang: :tantrum: :owned:Oh hey there Tara!! So we're gonna have a backstory of all the children she lost, and evidence (babies in jars, omg) that she is batshit. Tara can play subtle insanity like an honors graduate of Bedlam. I'm sure she's gonna be great. This doesnt actually look like GoT at all, more like a science fiction thing. You sure this from the episode?It looks very much like GOT to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 And how exactly, pray excuse, would this make her more sympathetic?She'll look like an even crazier version of Lysa. Ugh.I know I've criticised changes in the past, but this is just at a completely different level. I was really excited about this episode, but now I'm absolutely dreading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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