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[Book Spoilers] This is Bryan Cogman's episode.

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Syrio Foral Commoner

Syrio Foral

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Again, that explains Talisa's reaction but it does not explain how she got away with it.

I do not dislike unrealistic events, I dislike events which are not consistent with the established realism of the series. ASOIAF, and GOT both portray events realistically and even when events are unrealistic they're grounded and deconstructed. Talisa is a glaring exception which is (one reason) why I dislike her.

Dude, some parts of realistic, but this is a fantasy series. Lady Stoneheart is not real. Dragons are not real. Shadowbabies are not real.

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DarkAndFullOfTurnips Council Member

DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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I do not dislike unrealistic events, I dislike events which are not consistent with the established realism of the series. ASOIAF, and GOT both portray events realistically and even when events are unrealistic they're grounded and deconstructed. Talisa is a glaring exception which is (one reason) why I dislike her.

Fair enough. I will not argue that it's inconsistent to some degree, although, to me, show Westeros seems a bit less unforgiving than it does in the books. I just felt there were also some relatively inconsistent things that happened in the books, but I just want people to judge both mediums fairly if they're going to compare the two :)

Dude, some parts of realistic, but this is a fantasy series. Lady Stoneheart is not real. Dragons are not real. Shadowbabies are not real.

That's not really fair. Dragons and magic are set precedents that the show and books work within. His argument is that the precedents set within this imagined world are not being held to a standard in which the characters are able to interact within the world realistically. My argument about Arya was that within Westeros, she's beyond lucky to survive, and thus it's not that unrealistic that Talisa could manage it either. Realism within aSoIaF is different from the reality of our world.

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protar Council Member

protar

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Dude, some parts of realistic, but this is a fantasy series. Lady Stoneheart is not real. Dragons are not real. Shadowbabies are not real.

Did you read my post? I dislike it only when events go against the established realism of the series. This series always grounds things, even the magic. For example magic consistently has a cost in this series. Cat loses her sanity and her soul after being resurrected, dragons need Khal Drogo's sacrifice to wake them and the shadow babies are draining Stannis' life-force. And likewise peasants in this series are consistently brutalised, ignored by nobility and trampled under foot. Talisa is not consistent with this.

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Syrio Foral Commoner

Syrio Foral

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Did you read my post? I dislike it only when events go against the established realism of the series. This series always grounds things, even the magic. For example magic consistently has a cost in this series. Cat loses her sanity and her soul after being resurrected, dragons need Khal Drogo's sacrifice to wake them and the shadow babies are draining Stannis' life-force. And likewise peasants in this series are consistently brutalised, ignored by nobility and trampled under foot. Talisa is not consistent with this.

Okay, you may have a point, but other fantasy works have peasants marrying royal people all the time. For example, this poor peasant girl Cinderella married a prince despite of her step family. It might not be realistic in this type of work, (though that can be argued) but it has worked in others.

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DarkAndFullOfTurnips Council Member

DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Was there a sacrifice of sorts or payment for dragons initially being in existence? I agree that the whole only death pays for life and magic has its due thing, but before they dragons were all killed, I wonder if there was some sort of correlating payment for them existing. Or did they simply exist and then to animate them a price needed to be paid? This is grossly off-topic so I'll just add that this episode has the makings to be even better than the last. I think Cogman is superb.

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TomBadgerlock Landed Knight

TomBadgerlock

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We're talking about the initial Robb/Talisa meet scene from an episode a season and a half ago. It wasn't done especially well but it served it's purpose as far as getting Robb to take interest enough to eventually fall in love with a girl he had never met before. If we take away that scene and all of it's "sassiness" (which has been extremely overblown, the nurse was in the middle of a on-field amputation and got a little snappy with people she shouldn't have, excuse her for not observing all the social niceities in the moment), then I don't think the character has been that egregious a deviation. She's been extremely dutiful and appropriately deferential in all situations since then. She and Robb clearly enjoy each other's company and everyone around Robb begrudgingly accepts her as his wife now that they're married.

We can agree that she wasn't introduced in the best way. Now it's time to move on. She's fine doing what she's doing. There's no need to continually harp on this over and over a season and a half later.

I agree, mostly.

I saw S2 before reading the books and honestly prefer Talisa & Robb to Jeyne & Robb. Talisa actually has a personality, and although there wasn't a heap of time to establish their relationship, you can see why these two characters might have an interest in the other. The whole "marry her to save her honour" thing was never going to work on the show.

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Ser Cookie Monster Landed Knight

Ser Cookie Monster

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Okay, you may have a point, but other fantasy works have peasants marrying royal people all the time. For example, this poor peasant girl Cinderella married a prince despite of her step family. It might not be realistic in this type of work, (though that can be argued) but it has worked in others.

This is funny. You still don't get his point, but yet what you said is pretty much what he means. His problem is not that Talisa isn't realistic with EVERY story. His problem is that Talisa is NOT realistic with THIS story. Talisa doesn't fit and is unrealistic in the world of both GoT and ASoIaF. She would fit perfectly fine in a Cinderella story, or a Sleeping Beauty kind of thing, where a noble lady becomes a peasant and then the prince falls in love with her regardless of her sasiness and apparent social status. If this was a Cinderella story or a fairy tale nobody would have any problems with her, but GoT has already shown that it is NEITHER a Cinderella story NOR a fairy tale. Talisa breaks and doesn't follow the rules and reality that GoT has already stablished. For me is like if GoT was a puzzle that you are assembling, and then you put Talisa (who is a piece of ANOTHER puzzle) in it. It is a normal piece, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it just DOESN'T FIT and DOESN'T BELONG in THIS puzzle, it belongs and fits in ANOTHER puzzle.

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protar Council Member

protar

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This is funny. You still don't get his point, but yet what you said is pretty much what he means. His problem is not that Talisa isn't realistic with EVERY story. His problem is that Talisa is NOT realistic with THIS story. Talisa doesn't fit and is unrealistic in the world of both GoT and ASoIaF. She would fit perfectly fine in a Cinderella story, or a Sleeping Beauty kind of thing, where a noble lady becomes a peasant and then the prince falls in love with her regardless of her sasiness and apparent social status. If this was a Cinderella story or a fairy tale nobody would have any problems with her, but GoT has already shown that it is NEITHER a Cinderella story NOR a fairy tale. Talisa breaks and doesn't follow the rules and reality that GoT has already stablished. For me is like if GoT was a puzzle that you are assembling, and then you put Talisa (who is a piece of ANOTHER puzzle) in it. It is a normal piece, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it just DOESN'T FIT and DOESN'T BELONG in THIS puzzle, it belongs and fits in ANOTHER puzzle.

Thank you, couldn't have put it any better.

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Sun Council Member

Sun

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Two new picture from Episode 5 (Selyse Florent)

http://24.media.tumb...xciqbo1_500.jpg

http://24.media.tumb...ciqbo1_1280.jpg

:ack: :bang: :tantrum: :owned:

Oh hey there Tara!! So we're gonna have a backstory of all the children she lost, and evidence (babies in jars, omg) that she is batshit. Tara can play subtle insanity like an honors graduate of Bedlam. I'm sure she's gonna be great.

This doesnt actually look like GoT at all, more like a science fiction thing. You sure this from the episode?

It looks very much like GOT to me.

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PatrickStormborn Council Member

PatrickStormborn

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And how exactly, pray excuse, would this make her more sympathetic?

She'll look like an even crazier version of Lysa. Ugh.

I know I've criticised changes in the past, but this is just at a completely different level. I was really excited about this episode, but now I'm absolutely dreading it.

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