TV Tommen [Spoilers]

[Contemplative Brother]

The really tricky thing is how they are going to handle an older Tommen in future seasons.

Book spoilers:

The whole period of Cersei's regency after Tywin's murder culminates in Margaery's and later Cersei's imprisonment by the Faith. All of that is possible for two reasons:

1. A series of really bad decisions on Cersei's part

2. Tommen's complete inability to assess the situation and respond because he's 8-9 years old and he doesn't really understand what's happening.

If you tell a nine-year old Tommen "Your grace, this is awkward, but the Lady Margaery has been taken prisoner by the Faith" he might respond, "huh? I don't understand."

If you say that to a 12 or 13 year-old Tommen wouldn't he say, "What!? How could that happen? Where is she now? Are they hurting her? We have to do something."

I don't really know how they'll work around that. I don't really mind them making Tommen a little older. It will be interesting to see how it works, but a lot of the plot of AFFC and ADwD in King's Landing really relies on the fact that he's an innocent little kid who doesn't really understand what's going on.

[PhoenixFlame]

I know he's been mentioned as sweet, but there's a difference in saying "he's a sweet kid, unlike Joffrey" and seeing him be sweet when he's more than window dressing. Plus, I was thinking how much he's looking like Joffers now. It'll be kind of funny.

Easy answer to Tommen being older but not getting shit done...Joffrey would fuck you up if you pissed him off (unless you're Tywin). Tommen won't, he's a kid, and Tywin's already ensconced in the city. Pycelle's just going to feign deafness and everyone will nod, smile, and ignore him. King he might be, but even in the middle ages child rulers often had their powers curtailed.

[AZAXD]

I wanna see a cute little kid stampin' away at those papers!!

[Fishb4hjoker]

I was talking today with my unsullied friends about the show and upcoming season. None of them (6) remembered that Joffrey have siblins. I was wondering if this is a common problem with unsullied's?

[P. frontalis chiripepe]

I was talking today with my unsullied friends about the show and upcoming season. None of them (6) remembered that Joffrey have siblins. I was wondering if this is a common problem with unsullied's?

The cast of GoT is large, and it doesn't really surprise me that a casual viewer who has only watched the show once [and maybe even missed a couple episodes] doesn't remember the minor characters, especially after a several month break. However, I see this not as a problem, but as a blessing, because probably 75+ percent of viewers are casual and 'unsullied', and it is largely these viewers who keep the ratings high enough to ensure renewal every season. Hey, if a few million people want to watch the show and only pay half attention, go for it!!! :) :)

[PhoenixFlame]

It's much easier to accept things like that in a TV show. "Oh, Joff DOES have siblings, right? Think I remember something about that. Whatever, here he is."

Are there any screencaps of New!Tommen? He was adorable as Martin.

[Annara Snow]

I was talking today with my unsullied friends about the show and upcoming season. None of them (6) remembered that Joffrey have siblins. I was wondering if this is a common problem with unsullied's?

Well, it's not like Tommen had a major and memorable scene at the very end of one of the show's most crucial and celebrated episodes... oh wait, he did.

I very much doubt that this is a common problem with the Unsullied. In this case, we're not talking about the Unsullied in general, we're talking about very casual viewers. They may have forgotten a bunch of other stuff, too. Who cares? They'll be reminded that Tommen exists.

It seems to me that the Sullied tend to underestimate all the Unsullied and assume that they're all casual viewers just because they haven't read the books yet. Why would that be the case? TV viewers can be as passionate and obsessive as book readers - look at the Lost fandom or BSG fandom or Buffy fandom etc. Why would it be different with the GoT fandom?

[Ahri Adaran]

Well in general people who get pretty obsessive about the TV read the books eventually. Just look at how many people on this site watched at least some of the TV show before ever reading the books. Also the number of people who don't know their favorite character's name doesn't make me judge their knowledge of the ins and outs of the world too highly ;)

[TheKitttenGuard]

It's much easier to accept things like that in a TV show. "Oh, Joff DOES have siblings, right? Think I remember something about that. Whatever, here he is."

Are there any screencaps of New!Tommen? He was adorable as Martin.

At the PW sitting next to Cersei at the Lannister table. There is making of on the wedding which are some of the best looks. In the Foreshadowing it is a snippet.

[franko99]

Well, it's not like Tommen had a major and memorable scene at the very end of one of the show's most crucial and celebrated episodes... oh wait, he did.

I very much doubt that this is a common problem with the Unsullied. In this case, we're not talking about the Unsullied in general, we're talking about very casual viewers. They may have forgotten a bunch of other stuff, too. Who cares? They'll be reminded that Tommen exists.

It seems to me that the Sullied tend to underestimate all the Unsullied and assume that they're all casual viewers just because they haven't read the books yet. Why would that be the case? TV viewers can be as passionate and obsessive as book readers - look at the Lost fandom or BSG fandom or Buffy fandom etc. Why would it be different with the GoT fandom?

This is true, yes there are some people who don't even know the name of their favorite character, but those are not the majority of the fandom, most people knows and will remember that Joffrey have siblings, and if for some reason they forget, the show will make them remember (there is a preview before every episode for God's sake). Of course there is always an exception, and some people will remain oblivious of everything no matter what the show does and only watch the show because is trendy, but that shouldn't be HBO main concern, this show clearly is not for them

[PhoenixFlame]

This is true, yes there are some people who don't even know the name of their favorite character, but those are not the majority of the fandom, most people knows and will remember that Joffrey have siblings, and if for some reason they forget, the show will make them remember (there is a preview before every episode for God's sake). Of course there is always an exception, and some people will remain oblivious of everything no matter what the show does and only watch the show because is trendy, but that shouldn't be HBO main concern, this show clearly is not for them

Agreed. Though, given the large cast, I know people who understand the show perfectly well but can't keep some of the names straight. My dad will ask me about backstory, I'll ask why, and he'll point out some tiny thing in the show...but it took two seasons before he needn't be reminded it was Stannis not "Stannish," and he'll still look blank when I say "Blackfish" and not "Cat's funny jerkass uncle."

[Travy1991]

I really don't have an issue with the ageing up of the characters whatsoever. The storylines of a 13 year old Sansa, 11 year old Arya and 9 year old Bran that are in the book can still work well with a 16 year old Sansa, 14 year old Arya and 13 year old Bran on the show. It just requires minor tweaking. I know some people think the character's youth is important but it's not essential. Tommen's youth played a role in later books but again this could still work with minor tweaking in later series. Tommen, unlike Joffrey, is a good-hearted and compassionate young man but perhaps incredibly insecure (bullying from Joffrey perhaps) and very naive (making him the male version of Season 1 Sansa). So if we say Tommen is around the same age as Bran is in the show (approximately 13), he can still be an unsure king and have his small council deal with everything. The same goes for the kid playing Robin Arryn. He doesn't necessarily NEED to be young as he is in the books to play the part...he can still be a spoiled, petulant, mollycoddled and sickly young teen that the now much more mature Sansa has to look after.

When I watch the show, I personally just view each season as taking place over the course of approximately a year. Even though the show is pretty fast-paced, there are many scenes that could perhaps take take place a number of weeks or even months after the previous scene from the previous episode. Same goes for the length of time it takes to travel from place to place. The actors are going to age and there's nothing we can do about it, short of recasting and the show does enough of that already. The actors are going to age. Particularly Isaac Hempstead-Wright (currently almost 15 years old) who probably won't stop growing until he's around 18 or even slightly older so I don't see why age is such a big issue.

[TheKitttenGuard]

I really don't have an issue with the ageing up of the characters whatsoever. The storylines of a 13 year old Sansa, 11 year old Arya and 9 year old Bran that are in the book can still work well with a 16 year old Sansa, 14 year old Arya and 13 year old Bran on the show. It just requires minor tweaking. I know some people think the character's youth is important but it's not essential. Tommen's youth played a role in later books but again this could still work with minor tweaking in later series. Tommen, unlike Joffrey, is a good-hearted and compassionate young man but perhaps incredibly insecure (bullying from Joffrey perhaps) and very naive (making him the male version of Season 1 Sansa). So if we say Tommen is around the same age as Bran is in the show (approximately 13), he can still be an unsure king and have his small council deal with everything. The same goes for the kid playing Robin Arryn. He doesn't necessarily NEED to be young as he is in the books to play the part...he can still be a spoiled, petulant, mollycoddled and sickly young teen that the now much more mature Sansa has to look after.

When I watch the show, I personally just view each season as taking place over the course of approximately a year. Even though the show is pretty fast-paced, there are many scenes that could perhaps take take place a number of weeks or even months after the previous scene from the previous episode. Same goes for the length of time it takes to travel from place to place. The actors are going to age and there's nothing we can do about it, short of recasting and the show does enough of that already. The actors are going to age. Particularly Isaac Hempstead-Wright (currently almost 15 years old) who probably won't stop growing until he's around 18 or even slightly older so I don't see why age is such a big issue.

If Sansa lied to Tyrion she is 14 on 03x08 than I agree with the pacing is good. It addresses the 5 year issue elegantly.

They stated Tommen is 8 on the show between Renly and Loras. They should of Tommen and Bran the same age at start and avoid this continuity

Not having Tommen around in the show has "shielded" him from all the nasty business.

Having insecurities will also help that he is not ready to jump in bed with Margaery,

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Agreed. Though, given the large cast, I know people who understand the show perfectly well but can't keep some of the names straight. My dad will ask me about backstory, I'll ask why, and he'll point out some tiny thing in the show...but it took two seasons before he needn't be reminded it was Stannis not "Stannish," and he'll still look blank when I say "Blackfish" and not "Cat's funny jerkass uncle."

The Honest Trailer was right.

"Sneaky guy", "Sneaky bald guy", "Lord Friendzone", "Tyrion's hooker girlfriend", "bran", "bronn", "bran #2".

[TheKitttenGuard]

The Honest Trailer was right.

"Sneaky guy", "Sneaky bald guy", "Lord Friendzone", "Tyrion's hooker girlfriend", "bran", "bronn", "bran #2".

Carl Drago

[King Tommen]

To address the occasional inability to remember character names on the show, I wouldn't necessarily hold this against a viewer and hold it over them as an indication of their level of fandom.

Television and movies don't have the luxury of providing a character's name to you every time they enter a scene the way a book does. They can't constantly be mentioning each other's names in conversation without it starting to appear strange.

And with the sheer number of characters on the show, it's not surprising that their name isn't the thing they use to identify each of them. It doesn't mean that the viewers don't immediately recognize who the character is, their motivation and relation to others on the show once they arrive however. The name might just be the thing that isn't on the tip of their tongue because there's just too damn many of them to recall and you don't get to hear the name constantly the way the books lay it out for you every time they're on the page.

I'd equate this to a bookreader trying to identify what every character in the novels looks like. Sure, you can rhyme off the main characters' and all of their defining characteristics but if I were to ask what say, Jon Connington or Reznak or Varamyr or Pate or Victarion really looks like (hair color, fat/thin, tall/short, bald/no etc) I'd probably get several different descriptions of varying degrees of accuracy from different bookreaders even though they were all described looks-wise at some point in the story. It's the same thing.

Is it any wonder why some television viewers refer to Dany as Khaleesi when if you really look at it, she's being called that over and over again (by Jorah mostly) and the name Daenerys doesn't come up nearly as often.

[PhoenixFlame]

To address the occasional inability to remember character names on the show, I wouldn't necessarily hold this against a viewer and hold it over them as an indication of their level of fandom.

Television and movies don't have the luxury of providing a character's name to you every time they enter a scene the way a book does. They can't constantly be mentioning each other's names in conversation without it starting to appear strange.

Exactly, that's what I was trying to say in my earlier post. I know people who love to discuss, but don't always recall the names. Hell, I graduated from a class of 58 people and while I knew everyone, I couldn't rattle off everyone's name.

It may be they retcon the age or just never state his age and whatever they've briefly mentioned in S1 will be replaced by the age the audience percieves Tommen now. You don't need to be sure of his exact age to know he's youthful and sheltered. It's going to be amusing to see the Unsullied expect Joffrey 2.0 (bb Lannister incest spawn) and get the little gold fluffnugget.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Well we are not going to see new Tommen till next week. The preview did have a good for looks on him though.

At least the mention by Jaime "Ser Meryn will guard Lady Margaery and Tommen" is a foreshadow.

[Trebla]

He's majorly aged up. The actor (who I believe played one of the murdered Lannisters in season 3) is taller than Lena Headey. The Tommen in season 2 could sit on Cersei's lap. The show really has little choice other than to go this route without having a Walt situation like Lost.

[Fishb4hjoker]

He's majorly aged up. The actor (who I believe played one of the murdered Lannisters in season 3) is taller than Lena Headey. The Tommen in season 2 could sit on Cersei's lap. The show really has little choice other than to go this route without having a Walt situation like Lost.

Well it will be intresting to see how the staff will play this out. Tommen is now way too old just playing with cats and outlawing beets. I think they probably go in to that direction where Tommen and Margaery will have some kind relationship. Maybe some kissing scenes for example. I highly doubt there will be sex scenes between them, because obvious reasons.