Growing strong - fans not so young, come out of your closets!

[Woman of War]

With spring taking its time to show up here I was shivering so hard this morning that my teeth popped out. And then it took me a while to recover them because they had slipped under my wheelchair and I had to put my crutches away and could not find the teeth without my glasses on..........What have we been talking about??.........

Come to think of, I may be out of the typical age range of these forums. Dangerously close to the age of our favorite author.

So I am female and at the wrong (or better!) side of fifty, politically aware and very interested with an active background. I am a freelancing artist.

I have always read fantasy, started with Lovecraft, Tolkien, LeGuinn and McKillip. Actually I got into it through political SF like Orwell and Huxley. But I had not read any fantasy for about ten years, having been disappointed by everything that tried poorly to imitate Tolkien.

Then I took up J. Rowling, Cornelia Funke and Jonathan Stroud together with my kids.

This made me open for reading ASOIAF after having seen the first episodes right after they had been broadcasted.

I got the idea for this thread from the "OG's" topic: to those of, say, 35+!

I would really like to know if the onlook and interpretation of the story and its characters might be different if a reader i s not so young anymore and quite far away from school and college theses, already having quite a bit of RL biography. I am aware that many posters here are the age of my own kids (hopefully they themselves are not among them, since they would recognize my avatar :) ).

How does this influence the perception of the books, given that many fans are quite young and the author himself is even some years older than I am.

Any ideas?

Senior citizens like me, come out of your closets, there must be more of us, take out your hearing aids and cry out loud: We are the rulers of Winter, Martin is one of us!

[Usrnmhsnomning]

We don' take kindly to your kind 'round here :whip:

I'm actually really interested in hearing the opinions of older readers. It always feels like we're a bunch of early to late 20's on this forum.

[Winter's Knight]

We don' take kindly to your kind 'round here :whip:

I'm actually really interested in hearing the opinions of older readers. It always feels like we're a bunch of early to late 20's on this forum.

Really? Barring the big names, I thought we skewed more high school-early 20s. Although I believe Lummel is, like WoW, a respected elder.

[TalalOfDorne]

Really? Barring the big names, I thought we skewed more high school-early 20s. Although I believe Lummel is, like WoW, a respected elder.

I think its like you said but with a bigger number of mid to late twenties.

Anyway I dont think my place will be in this thread for another 15 years :P . So until then Ill just be in the Elimination Game thread

[EliaOfUpstate]

Represent my Sistah! Does this mean soon we can expect start up 35+ conventions for our summer soft Warriors & Royals to age into? They will need to winterize, for the wait for future books will be Dark and Full of Terror, AKA, a realization they have landed post age 25.

I'm 48 and a full on pusher with all things ASOIAF.

[bent branch]

With spring taking its time to show up here I was shivering so hard this morning that my teeth popped out. And then it took me a while to recover them because they had slipped under my wheelchair and I had to put my crutches away and could not find the teeth without my glasses on..........What have we been talking about??.........

Come to think of, I may be out of the typical age range of these forums. Dangerously close to the age of our favorite author.

So I am female and at the wrong (or better!) side of fifty, politically aware and very interested with an active background. I am a freelancing artist.

I have always read fantasy, started with Lovecraft, Tolkien, LeGuinn and McKillip. Actually I got into it through political SF like Orwell and Huxley. But I had not read any fantasy for about ten years, having been disappointed by everything that tried poorly to imitate Tolkien.

Then I took up J. Rowling, Cornelia Funke and Jonathan Stroud together with my kids.

This made me open for reading ASOIAF after having seen the first episodes right after they had been broadcasted.

I got the idea for this thread from the "OG's" topic: to those of, say, 35+!

I would really like to know if the onlook and interpretation of the story and its characters might be different if a reader i s not so young anymore and quite far away from school and college theses, already having quite a bit of RL biography. I am aware that many posters here are the age of my own kids (hopefully they themselves are not among them, since they would recognize my avatar :) ).

How does this influence the perception of the books, given that many fans are quite young and the author himself is even some years older than I am.

Any ideas?

Senior citizens like me, come out of your closets, there must be more of us, take out your hearing aids and cry out loud: We are the rulers of Winter, Martin is one of us!

Like you, I am a woman over the age of 50. Like you I am politically aware. My last job title was archaeologist, but as I took a wandering path through life I have also worked in television and government. I don't know if I can actually call myself retired as I have been unable to convince my husband to join me, so I'll simply say I don't work outside the home.

I was not much of a fantasy reader as all I can remember reading was LOTR, The Hobbit and the Harry Potter series. Of course, I have been reading for half a century and have always been a heavy reader (both my children are librarians) so I have forgotten more of what I have read than what I remember.

I came to ASOIAF through my daughters. One day when they were visiting an ad for AGOT came on. I said that looks like it might be interesting (I watch little TV). My daughters said they knew the book series and they were sure it would be great so we should make a party of it. On the night the series premiered they came over and we had a nice dinner and watched the show. When it was over I turned to them and asked, "So who is Jon's mother?" They laughed and said I would have to read the books. I waited until the first season was over and when Jon's mother wasn't revealed I went and bought the books. My husband gave up watching the series after Ned was killed (annoying since he is the fantasy fan in the house). After I read all the books and wanted to discuss them with my daughters they told me they were to busy to read ADWD and I wasn't to talk to them about the books until they had time to read ADWD. I should have anticipated that since my eldest daughter has never finished the Potter series either. Anyway that is how I ended up here.

Although my children are 24 and 28, I do sometimes feel there is a gap in understanding with some of the ideas expressed on the boards. One thing that genuinely baffles me is when someone will ask that some theory be explained in the context of the story. The reason this baffles me is because the story isn't done yet. How can I explain the meaning of an event in the story until I know the whole story?

I also feel RL experiences influence my understanding of the story which I find difficult to express in an effective way. An example of this is how I understand Illyrio. Illyrio tells us that he and Varys met when Varys was on the run from Myr. They became partners in crime and once they began selling people's secrets back to them they became very wealthy. Because of Varys, Illyrio has enjoyed a life of great wealth, power and love. Because of Illyrio's gratitude, he is helping with Varys' plans now. There is nothing in this story that I doubt. There is nothing in this story that I am suspicious of. However, Tyrion is very suspicious. Why haven't I let Tyrion's suspicions influence how I see Illyrio's story. Because my RL experience tells me that Tyrion is primed to see betrayal everywhere. Tyrion performed tasks for his family in an excellent fashion. What was his reward? They left him in a small room to die alone. They refused to give him what their society said should be his. They accused him of killing his nephew and threatened to kill him. Then to top it all off, the one family member who Tyrion thought he could truly trust tells him that he had lied to him. Why should Tyrion believe that two men who met as strangers could have such a tight bond of trust between them? I think by telling us Illyrio's story through Tyrion's eyes, GRRM primed the reader to believe that Illyrio's motives were somehow sinister when they are indeed altruistic like he tells Tyrion. Illyrio wouldn't be the first wealthy man to decide to do good works with his wealth in his waning years. This is the best example I can give of how I think my advanced years affect my reading of the story.

I hope this post was in the vein you were looking for. While I do sometimes feel the gap in years, I don't think it is insurmountable. I know lots of people my daughters' ages and while there are definitely differences in how somethings are viewed between the generations we generally have pleasant and intelligent conversations.

[Ser Creighton]

Well I am young of heart but i'll be damned if my body just keeps aging without my permission. I am 40 a 20 year veteran of the USMC and I still managed to squeez in a degree. Though I only got it because I enjoyed going back to school, I don't use it. I am currently employed with the CPD 19th district Chicago IL.

I would say there is a notable difference in perspective that comes with age most of the time. When your older you have generally been around more and seen more. I think when you have been around a little bit longer you tend to see things a little different. I think sometimes with the books you can sometimes see where Martin is going if understand a little bit better where he is at and where he has been in his life. What he grew up with, what the world was like and how it impressed upon him. If you come from that era your going to have a better connection to that understanding. You may notice a homage that a younger reader didn't because they never saw the Exorcist, or you may understand who a character is based on because you saw Andy Griffith as a child. Not saying that's in Martins books just making a general comparison.

You know one of the biggest debates I have on this board is about Rhaegar leaving Elia and his kids. The most common reply is that he did it for love. But they never seem to understand what I am saying when I say if you can't love your kids, you can't love anyone. I don't think many of the posters understand the bond of holding your child in your arms for the first time. How strong that is. They tend to think of it as not a big deal and that it does not mean anything to the character that he left his kids. They just see them as an after thought. Not everyone but a good amount of posters just don't get my perspective on that.

I don't think there are many of us on this site, at least not in gen pop.

You didn't really lose your teeth did you? That's just a bad joke right? I mean it's not unheard of but really?

[TalalOfDorne]

You know one of the biggest debates I have on this board is about Rhaegar leaving Elia and his kids. The most common reply is that he did it for love. But they never seem to understand what I am saying when I say if you can't love your kids, you can't love anyone. I don't think many of the posters understand the bond of holding your child in your arms for the first time. How strong that is. They tend to think of it as not a big deal and that it does not mean anything to the character that he left his kids. They just see them as an after thought. Not everyone but a good amount of posters just don't get my perspective on that.

I never really thought about this. And now that I read it I agree with you.

We need the like button back.

[Gingerchu]

Wow over 50, are you not scared you won't live to see the end of the books? :P

[First of My Name]

Wow over 50, are you not scared you won't live to see the end of the books? :P

I am always secretly happy when I read these sort of comments... being 15, I'll definetly live longer than Martin :). But now I have to worry about him dying before me...

[Ragnorak]

Really? Barring the big names, I thought we skewed more high school-early 20s. Although I believe Lummel is, like WoW, a respected elder.

Respected Elder? I think Lummel is still in the death throes of his thirties. Let him enjoy the last few ticks of his odometer in peace and then taunt him when he's psychologically vulnerable. :devil:

I'm 43. In general with age comes a perspective from having seen things with much longer cycles come full circle. There's also a point where the nostalgic things from your youth become forgotten and unknown in the emerging generation of young adults which gives one a certain perspective as well.

There are other things that apply to the series like marriage and divorce. Divorce is just a common occurrence today but I remember a time when it was still a shocking event and even a bit taboo. The notion of marriage as an inviolable institution isn't hard to imagine but having seen the social pressures applied to people and the attitudes surrounding it I think those are probably harder to imagine for someone who never saw or experienced it. Child rearing practices is another one. There is far more supervision, structured activity, and frequent contact among parents and children today. When I was growing up the almost universal parenting rule was be home before the street lights come on or before dark. There were no cell phones so children were gone unless you went out to hunt them down or started calling the neighbors. There was far more independence and a need for children to structure their own activities. In some ways I find Ned's expectation that Rickon overcome his fear of the direwolf closer to my childhood than some of the things I see today. Bullying today has a national focus. In my day it was mostly something you were supposed to address amongst yourselves as children-- it had to be given how much unsupervised time children had. As an example, Jon protecting Sam is a story that I saw play out frequently from first grade through high school. I suppose seeing a generational resentment against the Japanese from WWII give way to Pokemon and sushi bars offers a certain perspective on shifting alliances among Houses as well.

[Lady Arya's Song]

Hah! I read the first book way back in 1998. My son who is now 33 gave me his paperback. I am surely the oldest geezerette on this forum. I read to my children when they were young, Watership Down, LOTR, etc etc. All three of my children now young adults enjoy reading.

That makes me GRRM's age. I do believe age and life experience plays a huge part in how one reads these books and relates to the characters but its not only age. George is such a brilliant author that morality and ethics and how one likes or dislikes a character also comes into play.

I come from a very religious background and a very conservative political viewpoint..which probably really makes me a very small segment on this board. I just want to say that due to that background I notice the subtle influence George has skillfully woven into this series.

The Stark family's view on honor and morality. Jon Snow's messianic arch and believe me its there. The love for children and the ethics of child abuse or killing of innocents..all these are there in the book. Even some of the names he has used for people groups..I mean come on ..the lambs of the Lhazerine people? Nazerine..lol

This series is almost like my secret sin..lol I can not speak about it to my friends who are all very religious and they would be appalled at the sex and murder and incest and cannabalism in this series. So this is my guilty little secret..that somehow I can read this series despite the parts that make me cringe or cry and still enjoy it.

I do worry that my eye sight will be totally gone by the time the series is finished. My only consolation is that GRRM and I are very close in age and so he is on the same deadline as I am..pun intended. :)

[Lykos]

<snip>

There has been a thread a year ago (in genchat, I think) that asked for the age of posters to determine the avarage age, which turned out to be between 38 -40 (as my memory serves, I only followed to post 300 or so).

Which, as Ragnorak, just posted makes Lummel average, in that respect.

I´ve encountered more posters above the age of 60, than under 20 year olds (only the ones who mentioned their ages).

ETA: Ragnorak, so you´re saying you will start supporting Dany as soon as she gives up her plans to invade Westeros and starts selling cheap entertainment to the westerosi kids?

[gougef]

I'm 52 and I think that the the most powerful scene for older people is:

"Egg.. I dreamed I was old."

I tear up every time I read this.

You can just feel it creep up on you.

[Buckwheat]

We don' take kindly to your kind 'round here :whip:

I'm actually really interested in hearing the opinions of older readers. It always feels like we're a bunch of early to late 20's on this forum.

Depends on where you look. I am sometimes afraid to post in GenChat because there are so many old, experienced etc. people there ... :leaving:

And Lykos, I think the average age was 35ish, IIRC.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I'm 52 and I think that the the most powerful scene for older people is:

"Egg.. I dreamed I was old."

I tear up every time I read this.

You can just feel it creep up on you.

I have to admit that I had the same reaction to that, though I'm only 27 (only time reading the books I've actually teared up). Probably some nuances of how you experience it change, but I think it's a very powerful scene no matter how old your actual age is.

[Lykos]

Buckwheat, as I said I didn´t follow the thread to the end. The first prelimenary average was something like 35. something but it became older, since we old ones are slower. It might have gone down again as the kids started to focus long enough to determine their age. ;)

[Ser Pounce FTW]

What a fabulous idea for a thread. and while I am not on the wrong side of 50 but close. I'm 46. I agree that interpretation of acts, characters and themes will vary based on age, among other things.

So WoW, should we pick a theme or character for discussion then move on to the next? Or perhaps "ASOIAF: A reread using my reading specs this time"? Any other ideas?

[butterbumps!]

Really? Barring the big names, I thought we skewed more high school-early 20s. Although I believe Lummel is, like WoW, a respected elder.

Respected Elder? I think Lummel is still in the death throes of his thirties. Let him enjoy the last few ticks of his odometer in peace and then taunt him when he's psychologically vulnerable. :devil:

:lmao: Lum kind of brings that on himself though. He's always going about his "old age" and I'd swear he's trying to cultivate an air of crotchety. I guess I'm the baby of our reading triad; I suppose I kind of knew that though.

[Ragnorak]

There has been a thread a year ago (in genchat, I think) that asked for the age of posters to determine the avarage age, which turned out to be between 38 -40 (as my memory serves, I only followed to post 300 or so).

Which, as Ragnorak, just posted makes Lummel average, in that respect.

I´ve encountered more posters above the age of 60, than under 20 year olds (only the ones who mentioned their ages).

ETA: Ragnorak, so you´re saying you will start supporting Dany as soon as she gives up her plans to invade Westeros and starts selling cheap entertainment to the westerosi kids?

Haha! Nice one! I still like Dany, I just have some trajectory concerns... If Dany can invent something as cool as Tetris the Grandmaster all will be forgiven.

With the Japanese that was a two way street. They play baseball and we eat sushi and somewhere in there is the recipe for world peace.