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[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

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Then why fail on purpose? Why would he gain from "faking" it? Why not just keep her like a prisoner or tell Qhorin that he cannot kill her?

But why would show Ygritte want to save someone who took her captive and is so pathetic that failed killing her?

You still havent got it. Jon missed on purpose, because he didnt want to kill her, because it would be murder to him. He planned on bringing her back as a captive, but she managed to momentarily escape. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to kill her physically, and Ygritte knows that.

Because he refused to kill her when he was ordered to

Edited by Joyful Union

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Then why fail on purpose? Why would he gain from "faking" it? Why not just keep her like a prisoner or tell Qhorin that he cannot kill her?

The decision was kind of stupid in the book, but it showed what kind of person is Jon. It also served to make Ygritte want to save Jon's life, and make their bond stronger.

But why would show Ygritte want to save someone who took her captive and is so pathetic that failed killing her?

Because he did not fail. He spared her, but was not so stupid as to let her go. He kept her prisoner, and wildling women fall in love with those who kidnap them.

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So far, this season is just getting better and better. Last week's episode was more "in your face" good, mostly because of Dracarys, but this week's was just all around excellent, well paced, well written and extremely well acted (well for the most part). I love the buildup, ep 9 is going to be phenomenal, probably better than Blackwater.

Overall, I love the direction this show is taking. It used to be bleak and sad, now it's becoming extremely dark and hopeless.

Beric vs Hound was the best fight scene we've had so far. Best since Hound vs Mountain

Jon/Ygritte: Still don't care about this storyline. Kit is terrible.

Dragonstone: Wow, I loved everything there. I love the dark gothic atmosphere in those scenes. In the books, I always got an extremely creepy vibe from all the scenes in Dragonstone. Okay, the pickled babies was not exactly subtle but this is TV, they need to establish things with the little time they have per scene/location. Selyse was great, a bit more human and less batshit insane as in the books. I liked that. hehe Edric.

Shireen was perfect, just the right amount of hope and melancholy. I'm looking forward to her teaching Davos how to read.

I'm a bit saddened by the omission of Patchface, but I don't think he'd work well on TV, plus we already have enough characters as it is. Maybe they'll give his prophetic powers to Shireen?

Jaime/Brienne: Highlight of the episode without a doubt. That bath scene was extraordinary. Emmy for NCW already.

Robb: Man, the Karstark execution gave me chills. Brilliant scene. And the Roslin/Edmure marriage is in motions.

Arya: Loved all of her scenes. Maisie is the best. Her scene with Gendry made me tear up a little.

Daenerys: Good scene. I love listening to Valyrian. Grey worm is hot. Barristan/Jorah banter was well written.

King's Landing: Okay they are overplaying Olenna now. The toilet humor has to go and she's not as sharp as I imagined her. The actress is great, but her lines are just badly written.

Loras scene was a little pointless. Nice butt though.

Littlefinger continues to be one of the worst characters, god I just want to smack him everytime Aiden Gillen opens his mouth with that forced raspy voice of his.

Tywin/Tyrion/Cersei scene was fantastic.

What with all the buildup for royal wedding, it's obvious now PW will happen in ep 10. It's just be weird if all the buildup led to having to wait for next season.

So yeah, overall, fantastic episode, the buildup this season is incredible; it's so much better than last season.

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Great episode! Excellent weaving of fire throughout the episode, even in the background during the bath scene.

Arya asking if Thoros could 'bring back a man without a head' . . . :bawl:

And loved the brief scene between Arya and Gendry...poor Gendry, poor Arya

Sandor! In the face of fire, even! And I wasn't so sure I liked the new Beric, but man, oh, man...no question now!

I take it Sandor isn't going to capture Arya?

LOVED the bath scene...perfectly played.

The Ygritte/Jon cave was exactly the way I'd pictured it! Well played by both..."That thing you did. With your mouth" said in true Ygritte style...in fact both played the scene in true character.

Never thought Shireen was a compelling character until last night. She's awesome, and the greyscale is perfect. But Selye's stillborns...

:ack: , :ack: , and more :ack: !

Have to say I was happy there weren't any more of the Theon/Ramsay thread... personally, I wish they'd just leave that alone this season. There's too much other stuff to cover.

Tywin and his children who have 'disgraced' him...a rare moment for Tyrion and Cercei to be on the same side of something.

Sansa is so stupid! I repeatedly just get so fed up with her.

Love seeing the Queen of Thorns, so glad they added another scene with her. Funny to see Tyrion speechless...as usual, he played it perfectly. And always glad to see more of dear Pod.

I thought Catelyn looked absolutely gorgeous in last night's episode, so much more so than I've ever seen here before. The scene with the beheading of Karstark was exactly, exactly how I'd pictured the setting. Also so well played...and so 'beginning of the end' for Robb. Does he really think Frey will give him men after he went back on his word to Frey?

Did Loras' new lover really say he was Polliver? I must have misunderstood.

OK - time to get to work...

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Why is Theon's music playing when Robb executes Karstark?

I know it ties their beheadings together but Greyjoy music for the Starks is a bit out of place haha.

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Did Loras' new lover really say he was Polliver? I must have misunderstood.

It was Oliver. :lol: Yeah, I did a double-take too at first.

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You still havent got it. Jon missed on purpose, because he didnt want to kill her, because it would be murder to him. He planned on bringing her back as a captive, but she managed to momentarily escape. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to kill her physically, and Ygritte knows that.

Because he refused to kill her when he was ordered to

When I say fail on purpose, I mean miss on purpose. I understand that he thinks is wrong, but why make it LOOK like he is going to kill her, but then miss? Why not just say I cannot kill you. I cannot do it. and keep her captive instead of creating an opportunity for her to scape?

Like I said before, I don't think Ygritte thinks he let her scape. She had her eyes closed, her a sound but didn't feel anything. When she opened her eyes the sword was in front of her, like if Jon had missed, so she saw the opportunity to scape. It looks like he failed to her, even if he did it on purpose.

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I don't think she believed he spared her life. She had her eyes closed, the she herd a sound but didn't feel anything. When she opened her eyes the sword was in front of her, to her it looked like if he missed. Then she saw her opportunity to scape. In the boks it was OBVIOUS that he let her go.

Are you for real? This is just assuming things. Ygritte even says, after saving Jon from Rattleshirt, something like "now we're even". What do you think she was referring to, if not that he had not killed her?

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By the way, how the hell would Tywin know the Karstarks left Robb so quickly? Roose isn't in Riverrun so there must be another spy. Well even if there's another spy that information was delivered pretty quick, but I'm willing to suspend belief if there is indeed another spy.

Talisa ;)

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Meanwhile, back with the sid eiwnning the war, Tywin ahs a family and that family will do exactly as he commands while he slowly “chips away” and Robb Stark by doing nothing. Tywin is playing everyone and its about time Cersei and Tyrion learn to dance along. Everyone played that scene perfectly.

Because ruling comes with a price. Sometimes you have to marry somebody you don't like; sometimes your kids are idiots; and sometimes you have to kill the guy who killed your enemy's children. Because its EASY to criticize, but King's don't criticize. They rule. Robb and Tywin are rulling.

This brings up something that I'm a little concerned about for the overall arc of the season. Because Charles Dance does such a fantastic job as Tywin and he's so fun to watch, I'm afraid viewers are going to start getting an overly rosy view of Tywin's character. He's actually a really terrible person who frequently misjudges situations and people. He's a world-class bully and a machiavellian ruler.

His kids are actually not idiots, he just doesn't give any of them credit for anything, ever. He says (in the show) that he doesn't trust Cercei because she's not as smart as she thinks she is. It's fun to see a smackdown of Cercei, and book readers know that she will turn out to be very hubristic, but the real reason Tywin doesn't give her one shred of respect or approval is because he is Tywin and she is under his power. Tywin condescends to everyone and does his damnest to make everyone around him feel like inferior shit, regardless of their actual intelligence and abilities. THis is most obvious in his treatment of Tyrion, but it extends to everyone. (Except Arya, apparently; loved those scenes, but it was fairly out of character for Tywin. Maybe he just liked her because she was some random girl who surprised him and was so obviously beneath him that he didn't feel the need to belittle her?)

Anyway, I can't complain about any individual scene with Tywin, I just think that since he's such a commanding presence it's easy to start to believe what he says about other people and think he's "tough but fair," when that's not really the case.

Edited by Smaug the Dreadful

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Why is Theon's music playing when Robb executes Karstark?

I know it ties their beheadings together but Greyjoy music for the Starks is a bit out of place haha.

It made for an incredibly powerful scene but I couldn't help thinking "this is Theon's theme...". A more soaring and dark variation of the Stark/Winterfell theme would've been nice.

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The episode was practically perfect, so many highlights e.g. Jaime/Brienne, Shireen/Stannis and Shireen/Davos (I love the little girl that plays her!), Robb/Karstark, Arya's heartbreak. At the moment I'd say it's the episode I've enjoyed the most.

I have to join the chorus of people who aren't pleased about Jon/Ygritte though. Tbh, I have problem with Jon's whole storyline, in the books he's one of my faves while in the show he's a bit of a letdown. Sex with Ygritte had zero build up and came out of nowhere, their whole relationship feels sudden. I just can't wait for Jon's time with the wildlings to end, for Stannis to get to the Wall, and for Jon to start interacting with Team Dragonstone (Melisandre!). I'm sure it will be way more interesting than what we get right now, as for some reasons it just did not translate properly on screen. Jon's story is my only gripe atm, I hope it picks up.

Re Brienne's body double: it's weird some would say that, as the actress who plays her has done tons of naked portraits so I doubt she'd have a problem with nudity. She looked very pretty during the whole scene and her body is gorgeous, however Brienne is not supposed to be attractive; why use a body double with such pretty derriere?

EDIT: spelling

Edited by Door

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can't help it; bit of fangirling: holy hotness in this series... nikolaj, iain (and bean too), and now mcginley (anguy), kaye (thoros; yes, I think he's sexy), dormer (beric; agree with jeyne poole) and even our tormund, kristofer hivju. yeah, kit who? don't get me wrong, love book jon snow and sure am going to love series snow more and more, but as far as sexiness goes... give me the rugged ones.

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It made for an incredibly powerful scene but I couldn't help thinking "this is Theon's theme...". A more soaring and dark variation of the Stark/Winterfell theme would've been nice.

Who cares who's theme it is? It is music, used to convey an emotion to coincide with the scene.

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Who cares who's theme it is? It is music, used to convey an emotion to coincide with the scene.

Because the show has always played well with musical motifs and character themes. It just seems weird that they'd play Theon's theme over a scene that had nothing to do with him, is all.

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When I say fail on purpose, I mean miss on purpose. I understand that he thinks is wrong, but why make it LOOK like he is going to kill her, but then miss? Why not just say I cannot kill you. I cannot do it. and keep her captive instead of creating an opportunity for her to scape?

Like I said before, I don't think Ygritte thinks he let her scape. She had her eyes closed, her a sound but didn't feel anything. When she opened her eyes the sword was in front of her, like if Jon had missed, so she saw the opportunity to scape. It looks like he failed to her, even if he did it on purpose.

Here mate. 1.05: "Now we're even". After saving him from Rattleskirt. She saw him sparing her. Hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et6vp9QWWIk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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For those of you who are complaining about Loras fooling around with another man, sex doesn't equal love. We never get his POV in the books, so we can't be 100% certain that he never slept with anyone after Renly's death.

That doesn't fit with how disconsolate he was - his interaction with Sansa was just a few days before this scene and he was upset at even the mention of Renly. To then have him turn around like this was a big leap from where he had been established.

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Because the show has always played well with musical motifs and character themes. It just seems weird that they'd play Theon's theme over a scene that had nothing to do with him, is all.

But I looked at it as almost a reflection of Theon's beheading of Cassel, also it seems to coincide with the "point of no return" theme they both share as characters.

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