Khal-a-bunga Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 More a case of his editor being shitty, personally. There's lots of good stuff there it's just so padded out.You've got it backwards, I think. I'm sure his editor wanted to pare the book down (I think there is even an interview that vaguely alludes to this), but when an author hits a certain level of success, their editors lose a lot of their power (so to speak). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Look at how much has been left out of Arya's journey through the Riverlands if you want clues to how they could handle Brienne & Podrick's arc. They basically cut 75% of it at least - she gets captured, she splits with Hot Pie, boom, she encounters the Hound, boom, she's at the cave. And it should be almost over at this point, b/c she's about to get kidnapped by the Hound. Think of everything that's missing - 90% of the BWB members, none of the BWB allies (no Lady with the acorns, no Bella at the Peach, no ghost of High Heart, no Ned Dayne with his stories about Dorne and her father - although I suppose there's still time for them to throw a fragment of that to Anguy, no Harwin).I think they will have Jaime send Brienne off on her quest at the very end of Season 4 so that they can have her interact with various people in King's Landing - someone else other than Loras can insist on imprisoning her for Renly's death (maybe Margaery), and then we'll see the same sort of greatest hits version in Season 5 as with Arya's journey. The big question is Season 6. They could have her captured by Lady Stoneheart as her Season 5 climax/cliffhanger and then stretch out her interactions with them for part of Season 5 (those do make up a series of scenes) and then have her scene with Jaime toward the very end, as the big climax/cliffhanger for those two heading into season 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikherb Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Why the hating on books 4 & 5?I have to say I agree, I'd definitely like to see some fair changes from the fourth and fifth books to the show's adaptation.All the same, I don't think it's so much about hating on books 4 and 5. The way I see it, four was by far the slowest book of the series. Perhaps this is partly because it has the problem of being left in the shadow of the intense SOS. While I very much enjoy FFC and think it's underrated for multiple reasons (Cersei's downward spiral, Arya's sparse but badass beginnings in Braavos, ect.), it along with DWD (which is one of my favorites, I don't care what anyone says) are not as easy to translate into entertaining television as the previous three books. There's so much (and by that I mean hundreds and hundreds of pages that rely on inner workings of character thoughts and lengthened stretches to get to certain points, when if you're very invested in the books you can get to that point in a couple weeks without it being so drawn out. I think that this could be trimmed down and directed towards the more epic moments a lot better than the other books. Ideally, I think these books together should get one or two seasons. It would be hard to sit through three or more following seasons after season four just to get to the point the books are at now. When I say they should narrow down these last two books into one or two (honestly two seems better) seasons, I also wish that wasn't how I feel. If that's the way they do it, then they're really close to catching up with GRRM, and if WOW comes out before they get there then he's really screwed on time for the last book. Even if they split WOW into two seasons, that would give GRRM 2 years to finish the last and likely the longest book of the series- the idea of that working out is more of a fantasy than the series itself. For this reason, I will not be surprised at ALL of the show never finishes the story, and people lose interest in a year or two. While that makes me sad, it only reaffirms my preference of the books over the show. I trust GRRM, and I've loved the series so far (even the parts people tend to dislike) and I will be there at midnight when the last book comes out to find out how this all ends. That doesn't mean I think the show has no hope of finishing up. I think these are the options of how things might end up going down.1). God exists. GRRM kicks his pace up a notch while the show keeps it fresh enough to tell the story until there's more material while keeping audiences interested- all the way til the last book.2). D&D have a better idea than most where the story is going. They've basically said they know who Jon Snow's parents are (they did not say for sure they do, but their answer to that question is what convinced GRRM they were the right people to adapt his series so I think it's safe to say they guessed somewhat correctly). They've also said (along with other writers of the show) that GRRM has definitely given them insight as to where other characters are going to. Perhaps once they catch up to him, he can give them enough of an outline to make the show go on long enough for him to finish, or maybe (less likely) he'll give them the ending and let them wrap it up before he does. Being a writer myself, I don't think his ego will allow him to let them do this though (I sure as hell wouldn't).3). Worst case, people lose interest, or they catch up to GRRM while he still has years before WOW comes out and the show gets cancelled. While that'll suck, I can at least take solace in the books. Sorry for the length of this post, this has just been on my mind a good bit. At any rate, regardless of pacing or different scaling of some books compared to others, as far as the story he has created goes (all 5 books included) this series is genius and I'm stoked to see where it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 You've got it backwards, I think. I'm sure his editor wanted to pare the book down (I think there is even an interview that vaguely alludes to this), but when an author hits a certain level of success, their editors lose a lot of their power (so to speak).The same principle holds for the length of time between publishing volumes of the series. Martin has got to the point where he can finish his books whenever the hell he wants and tweak, revise and add all he likes in the meantime. If he was near the beginning of the series and not nearly as powerful, there's no way his publisher would let him get away with taking 7-8 years between volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 2). D&D have a better idea than most where the story is going. They've basically said they know who Jon Snow's parents are (they did not say for sure they do, but their answer to that question is what convinced GRRM they were the right people to adapt his series so I think it's safe to say they guessed somewhat correctly). They've also said (along with other writers of the show) that GRRM has definitely given them insight as to where other characters are going to. Perhaps once they catch up to him, he can give them enough of an outline to make the show go on long enough for him to finish, or maybe (less likely) he'll give them the ending and let them wrap it up before he does. Being a writer myself, I don't think his ego will allow him to let them do this though (I sure as hell wouldn't).An interesting note about the amount of knowledge D&D (and Cogman) have about Martin's future books was revealed in an interview by Cogman recently. As we were all told, Martin had given all of them a broad outline for where the story was going before they started the series. It appears as if the first 3 seasons were crafted with this additional knowledge. But a month or two ago, they all sat down with Martin again and had a very in depth discussion about more specific places his story was going. They told him that they needed this because they were at the point where that information was more important as they were getting closer to catching up with the end of the published material.What this would indicate to me is that things we've seen so far and what we'll see this season are based on more of a broad outline of future events. They are just writing Season 4 now armed with much more detailed info so starting next season, book fans should probably take any changes or adherence to the source as more of an indicator of their relative importance than what we saw in the first 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Fivehands Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Books 4 and 5 are that thing that fantasy novelists always get into when they stretch the story beyond 3 books. They're the books that introduce tons of new stuff that you don't immediately care about and the writing starts taking a departure from how the series started, which was pretty big in this series since there's like almost 20 year difference between the books. I waited 5 years for AFFC only to find it focuses on half of the characters and a bunch of new ones, and then another 5 years to find out what the hell is going on with Jon, Stannis, Dany, etc. 10 years to read about the continuation of certain character arcs is pretty brutal.On re-reads the books are much better. You have no expectations and you can combine them in your mind. You also don't protest to reading PoVs you initially found pointless and can begin to enjoy them. I suppose that's the difference in my mind between George and other novelists - their world building books usually stink but his are actually quite good once you get over that they're essentially good stories with a lot of filler in between.Thanks for that answer, I wouldn't really understand that ten year wait because I started the series in 2011 so I went quickly from book 4 to 5. I also found them annoying in that I was suddenly thrown under a bus of Greyjoys, martells, and cersei's annoying new small council. However I am now re reading books 4 and 5 at the same time through a reading list I found on here, which is infinetly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSidorov Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 More leaked screencaps of the episode: http://vk.com/wall-297836_524306 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dove Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 More leaked screencaps of the episode: http://vk.com/wall-297836_524306Aaaa, I wish I was better at resisting the temptation to look at this stuff. Really interesting.Melisandre lookin' fancy. So she and Arya do interact at some point.I like the expression on her face in that screencap with Beric. da fuck did you do thoros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSidorov Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 actual spoiler (bang bang) THE WHORE IS DEADhttp://cs409826.vk.m...kHQ1BHl_YdY.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanderpanda Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 actual spoiler THE WHORE IS DEADhttp://cs409826.vk.m...Hl_YdY.jpg[/img]I saw that on /tv/ and knew everyone here would be just as pleased as everyone in that thread haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_Scryer Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 actual spoiler THE WHORE IS DEADhttp://cs409826.vk.m...kHQ1BHl_YdY.jpgHOLY SHIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstoned Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 You've got it backwards, I think. I'm sure his editor wanted to pare the book down (I think there is even an interview that vaguely alludes to this), but when an author hits a certain level of success, their editors lose a lot of their power (so to speak).Yeah I get that, the same thing happened with Dostoevsky (became so successful he could overrule his editors) - then again, up to the editor to hold their ground.actual spoiler (bang bang) THE WHORE IS DEADhttp://cs409826.vk.m...kHQ1BHl_YdY.jpgChrist! I didn't like the character but looking at that I feel terrible.edit: What does this mean for speculation? Some thought she'd escort Sansa from the PW to LF and would meet the same end as Dontos, not any more. Maybe Joffrey being sadistic or thinking he's punishing Tyrion? Looks like a crossbow quarrel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 actual spoiler (bang bang) THE WHORE IS DEADhttp://cs409826.vk.m...kHQ1BHl_YdY.jpgWoosh. Well, there goes my theory of her being the substitute for Ser Dontos. Looks like Littlefinger's cleaning up loose ends. I think this could work. It shows that he's not an idiot, and can be utterly ruthless. I could be wrong however, and this might just be Joffrey or Tywin's doing.EDIT: This is probably the work of Joffrey, judging by the crossbow bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_Scryer Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 More here: http://imgur.com/a/EbTjDSansa's sad face makes me :( The rest of her makes me :) though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanderpanda Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Woosh. Well, there goes my theory of her being the substitute for Ser Dontos. Looks like Littlefinger's cleaning up loose ends. I think this could work. It shows that he's not an idiot, and can be utterly ruthless. I could be wrong however, and this might just be Joffrey or Tywin's doing.EDIT: This is probably the work of Joffrey, judging by the crossbow bolts.It is definitely Jofferyhttp://imgur.com/a/EbTjD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 It is definitely Jofferyhttp://imgur.com/a/EbTjDOh, sweet Jesus. The shitstorm that's going to rise from the crossbow bolt to Ros' groin is going to be MASSIVE. The show has already been accused of misogyny, but if they depict Ros' death in a way similar to Joff's scene with the whores, this will be the most they've been criticized yet. But on the bright side, at least Joffrey is back to his evil form again. Although that does undermine Ramsay, if his torture of Theon will be in the same episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dove Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Sounds like a deviation or something big?aaaaa nope nope not gonna look, so tempting though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 It's not a big deviation, but it is surprising, and a bit alarming, in all honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Holy Motherfuck, that is brutal! And I love it, sadistic bastard that I am. I was thinking that Joffrey was being too nice this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_Scryer Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 It's not a big deviation, but it is surprising, and a bit alarming, in all honesty.Joff never actually killed anyone himself in the books did he? So I suppose it is a somewhat big deviation, this will more than likely show the Tyrells that Joff can't be controlled.I'm still suspecting LF is the one that arranged this meeting between Ros and Joff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.