[BOOK SPOILERS] On weddings

[Colonel Green]

Yeah the reason why I like the PW as cliff hanger in E10 idea is that without it the King's Landing plot arc in this season has no real "arc" to it.

We know how the Robb/Catelyn arc is in season 3, culminating in E9, we know how Dany's Arc goes, culminating in Yunkai and her first real military victory (Astapor was through treachery, not a real military campaign). Arya's arc ends with her on the run with the Hound with no family to return to. Jon's arc ends with him back to the NW, and Bran's arc probably ends with meeting with Coldhands.

But what does the KL arc go without the PW. After Tyrion's wedding, LF goes to the Vale, and, what exactly? Seems like other than getting a reaction shot of people there to the RW, there is nothing happening in KL, just a bunch of dangling threads.

The PW brings all the threads to a proper climax.

The Sansa/Tyrion wedding in episode 8, coupled with some sort of resolution to the Cersei/Loras thing (perhaps in 9 or 10), would be a climax to a season of Tyrell v. Lannister jockeying. Episode 8 is the big finale of King's Landing; episode 9 finishes off the Robb/Catelyn stuff; episode 10 would thus perform its usual coda function. That's a perfectly fine dramatic structure, and there's no reason to rush the Purple Wedding and deprive the fourth season of major material when it's already going to have to stretch in places.

The royal wedding has been the focus of the entire KL plot line.

It's been the subject of conversation, but from all appearances the show has been shifting gears from episodes 4-8, so that won't really be true by the time you get to the end of the season. And since they're splitting the book into two seasons, there will necessarily be things set up that don't pay off immediately.

I think D&D know that they have to give the audience some sort of olive branch

Why?

Moreover, things like Dany's plotline provide positive moments in the finale.

As a practical matter, what about Jack Gleeson? Is he going to come back for a 4th season just to do 1 or 2 episodes then die? Doesn't make much sense to me.

It wouldn't be a huge time commitment to film only a few episodes, particularly since Joffrey doesn't actually have a terribly big role in his own death.

This also helps out w/ Sansa's story line. She doesn't have to flee KL until the start of Season 4, which will start the night Joff dies.

How does that help with Sansa's storyline? If Joffrey's already dead, they'd have had to hurriedly set up a bunch of stuff just moments before.

[King Tommen]

The "Mysha" rationale is seriously stretching it. The PW isn't about Cersei, it's about Tyrion and Joffrey. Additionally, the episode titles do not need to have some kind of meaning in every storyline they cover off in the episode, usually there's one overt one (like for Dany) and maybe another one tangentially (Cat being awakened with the Kiss of life after Arya sees her through a Nymeria wolf dream is probably more appropriate).

I have yet to hear anyone give a solid reason for the PW happening this season outside of the fact that they want it to be so and then are trying to work backwards from that notion to try and fill in the logic holes that result from that desire.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I just hope we get a glimpse of Nymeria.

I'm sick of the fact that through all of Arya's travel in the Riverlands the last 2 seasons they havent thrown us a single bone with a mention of a large wolf pack lead by a she-wolf.

[Q the Cat]

All of these ideas about threads and arcs make good sense, however I just can't get past the idea of that many wedding episodes in a row.

T+S then RW then PW. That seems like wedding overkill to me. Although looking at the schedule - there is a 2 week gap between episodes 8 and 9, so maybe that's enough of a break to not seem like GoT is turning into The Wedding Channel.

My wager is for no PW this season though.

[Arkash]

There will also be Lysa and Littlefinger's wedding down the line...

[Newstar]

My wager is for no PW this season though.

If you're interested in an actual wager, I think lotun was taking bets in one of the threads on the General (GoT) board (the "How will Season 3 end?" one, I think).

No matter which way it shakes out, a lot of fans will be eating crow (a feast of crow, if you will, as someone more clever than me put it), since there are people on both sides of the PW is in Season3/PW is in Season 4 argument swearing up and down that they're right.

I was in the "PW is in Season 3" camp for a long time, but the further we get into Season 3 itself, the less and less convinced I am. These days, I'm content to stay on the sidelines with some popcorn while the Season 3 and Season 4 supporters battle it out. We'll all know soon enough, anyway.

[LordStoneheart]

The three weddings in a row would be bad story telling argument doesn't sit with me also. While Sansa's wedding is much earlier in the book, that's still three major weddings to major characters or at least major events in the book. If you think three weddings in the show would be too much like a soap opera, that means the book also does.

Also, I think the Mhysa title, the Second Sons, and Castamere, all three of them can suggest the PW. that's actually pretty crazy how that is...

[Khalessi]

The three weddings in a row would be bad story telling argument doesn't sit with me also. While Sansa's wedding is much earlier in the book, that's still three major weddings to major characters or at least major events in the book. If you think three weddings in the show would be too much like a soap opera, that means the book also does.

Also, I think the Mhysa title, the Second Sons, and Castamere, all three of them can suggest the PW. that's actually pretty crazy how that is...

Can I just say I love your quote!

[LordStoneheart]

Can I just say I love your quote!

Why, thank you.

[King Tommen]

I think the fact that they held off on having the Sansa/Tyrion wedding so early in the season (differing itself from the book timelines) and increasing its importance and scope is probably the best argument as to why they had decided to move the PW to the following season.

[LordStoneheart]

I think the fact that they held off on having the Sansa/Tyrion wedding so early in the season (differing itself from the book timelines) and increasing its importance and scope is probably the best argument as to why they had decided to move the PW to the following season.

Or alternatively, so Sansa wouldn't be in a forced marriage with a man nearly twice her age for as long as in the books. Then again, Daenerys sorta was, but they had to officially age her up to make it okay with HBO

[TheDarkOne]

People saying the PW this season are doing so just to be annoying.

Hopefully the show producers will bypass it all together. Joff is to good a character to get rid of, and keeping him alive wouldn't hurt the plot. The love story between Joff and Sansa has been the best part of this season.

[Spring Snow]

The love story between Joff and Sansa has been the best part of this season.

Sorry, the what now?

If you're referring to Joffrey and Margaery, I think that's infatuation on his part and sheer ambition on her's. ;)

[Sun]

Regarding PW status:; here are the summaries for eps 9 and 10:

Episode 3.09 - The Rains of Castamere

Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.) Playdates: June 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8

Episode 3.10 - Mhysa

Joffrey challenges Tywin. Bran tells a ghost story. In Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters. Dany waits to see if she is a conqueror or a liberator. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.) Playdates: June 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 15

I think this ends the discussion, right?

[Newstar]

Regarding PW status:; here are the summaries for eps 9 and 10:

Episode 3.09 - The Rains of Castamere

Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.) Playdates: June 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8

Episode 3.10 - Mhysa

Joffrey challenges Tywin. Bran tells a ghost story. In Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters. Dany waits to see if she is a conqueror or a liberator. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.) Playdates: June 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 15

I think this ends the discussion, right?

Maybe. I think people will be arguing until the Ep 10 credits roll.

We knew from some or other writer that Episode 9 is going to focus on a "smaller group of characters." Speculation beneath the spoiler cut:

I had been thinking 3x09 would cover strictly Red Wedding stuff: Arya, Cat and Robb's storylines. However, it looks like that isn't the case: 3x09 will also include Jon, Bran and Dany's storylines, at the very least.

...I do tend to think 3x09 will have very little KL material. I think 3x08 and 3x10 will be heavy on KL stuff. Sansa has at least two scenes in 3x10--the one with her outdoors wearing that gold ring from the 3x10 still, and the scene with Cersei and the jewelry box from the trailers--and Sansa only has more than one scene in big KL-centric episodes.

Speculation for 3x10:

While it seems increasingly unlikely that 3x10 will feature the Purple Wedding, it seems like it will set up the motive for the Purple Wedding. Right now, as of 3x05, Joffrey seems manageable: Margaery has him in hand, he even seems to be liking the idea of doing things that will make the people like him. I'm thinking that he also has a scene with Tywin in an upcoming episode--3x07, maybe?--where Tywin puts the fear of God into him; there was a scene shown in the making-of featurettes of Joffrey cowering on the throne with Tywin looming over him. Nor has there been any hint in Season 3 to date of Tyrion and Joffrey's antagonism; they haven't even had a scene together.

Also, the first half of Season 3 has been all about Cersei's distrust and hatred of the Tyrells, especially their intentions towards Joffrey. If Joffrey were to die now, TV Cersei's first thought would not be to arrest Tyrion but to call for the Tyrells' heads. The show has to change that by playing up Tyrion and Joffrey's mutual dislike.

So what I'm thinking is that towards the end of the season--in 3x08 and 3x10--Joffrey will do things that will set him up as a threat to various people. He'll probably act like an ass to Sansa at the Sansa/Tyrion wedding. I think the line "Everyone is mine to torment" from Joffrey is from Tyrion, Tywin, and Joffrey's post-RW conversation, which establishes him as a threat to both Sansa and Tyrion. It sounds as if Tyrion and Joffrey lock horns in this episode. It also sounds as if Joffrey challenges Tywin, showing him to be bold in a way he isn't earlier in the season. And in a change from the books, in 3x08 or 3x10 there will probably be a scene where Margaery tries to rein Joffrey in and he shrugs her off, hinting that the Tyrells are ultimately unable to control him as well.

Even if the PW isn't in Episode 10, then, I expect we'll see in the wedding episode and in 3x10 hints that Joffrey needs to be taken down, that Tyrion is openly threatening and fighting with Joffrey, that no one can control him, and that he is very dangerous. Right now, as of 3x05, Joffrey seems like a pussycat, easily manipulated by Margaery and brought to heel. The show needs to turn that around.

[Q the Cat]

Maybe. I think people will be arguing until the Ep 10 credits roll.

Speculation for 3x10:

That's a very good summary and you've captured my sentiments as well. :bowdown:

i'm expecting we'll all be posting in here after the 3x10 credits roll.

[Winter's Prince]

Well since the writers excluded Willas and Garlan, instead making Loras sole son of Highgarden I doubt he will join the Kingsguard. And in the books Tywin gave Cersei a choice either Balon or Willas, and she never chose either one. So what I think is they'll drag it out into Season 4 because with Joffery death Tywin was more concerned with that matter, and then when Tywin got killed Cersei did not have to chose anybody

[King Tommen]

Well since the writers excluded Willas and Garlan, instead making Loras sole son of Highgarden I doubt he will join the Kingsguard. And in the books Tywin gave Cersei a choice either Balon or Willas, and she never chose either one. So what I think is they'll drag it out into Season 4 because with Joffery death Tywin was more concerned with that matter, and then when Tywin got killed Cersei did not have to chose anybody

Bryan Cogman has already clarified that they have made Loras the eldest brother but have left themselves the out to have another younger Tyrell sibling mentioned later that could be appointed the heir to Highgarden should Loras join the KG.

[RottenAppleFossoway]

Mace Tyrell, Randall Tarley and the Martells of Dorne have all been mentioned previously.

I expect Tarly and Tyrell and at least Oberyn cast next season.

Mace and Oberyn have important roles very soon. How could Mace possibly not be at his daughters' wedding, a wedding that he himself is said to be advocating by his own mother in the show.

Oberyn has to be at the trial. He'll be there for the wedding as well; I'd put money on it.

Tarly is more important later on. Aside from being Sam's father, he is basically Tyrells general as well. I expect he arrives with Mace and Oberyn for the wedding but his role in the show will be similar to Roose Bolton's in season 2 and further develop the following season.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the Martells are held out until season 5. Myrcella, of course, is in Dorne, Dorne and the Martells have been name-dropped many times throughout all of the seasons, and we book readers know all of the many important events that happen in regards to the Martells. Arianne, Quentyn and Areo Hotah are all pov's after all.

There's not a doubt in my mind that the PW happens in season 4 and not in season 3

[Winter's Prince]

Mace Tyrell, Randall Tarley and the Martells of Dorne have all been mentioned previously.

I expect Tarly and Tyrell and at least Oberyn cast next season.

Mace and Oberyn have important roles very soon. How could Mace possibly not be at his daughters' wedding, a wedding that he himself is said to be advocating by his own mother in the show.

Oberyn has to be at the trial. He'll be there for the wedding as well; I'd put money on it.

Tarly is more important later on. Aside from being Sam's father, he is basically Tyrells general as well. I expect he arrives with Mace and Oberyn for the wedding but his role in the show will be similar to Roose Bolton's in season 2 and further develop the following season.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the Martells are held out until season 5. Myrcella, of course, is in Dorne, Dorne and the Martells have been name-dropped many times throughout all of the seasons, and we book readers know all of the many important events that happen in regards to the Martells. Arianne, Quentyn and Areo Hotah are all pov's after all.

There's not a doubt in my mind that the PW happens in season 4 and not in season 3

Exactly! Exactly! Exactly! That's what I been saying all along ain't no way their going have to deathly weddings in one season. Mace for sure aint going to miss the wedding