(BOOK SPOILERS) Nonsense

[Pinkie Baelish]

Wait, arithmetical errors are your biggest gripe with the episode?

[PatrickStormborn]

It's a TV show. It's not supposed to make logical sense.

But good TV shows should make "logical sense", which is why Game of Thrones will never be one of the best TV shows. There are just too many plot-holes and glaring inconsistencies.

It's a real shame, because season one had great potential.

I will never understand this. A character is boring, so their death and the slaughter of their mother and their bannermen is something to look forward to? The decimation of hope for the North is appropriate because we're sick of Robb scenes and his story with Talisa falls flat? Wow, that's some Joffrey-level justification there.

The North scenes are a travesty. So yeah, I'm looking forward to the Red Wedding too, so I don't have to watch with frustration as the Northern story continues to be butchered.

The point is to adapt the novels into a show that is strictly good television. Not to translate verbatim what happens in books to television. Because taking a book and transcribing it perfectly to a TV series is impossible and not necessarily the best thing to do. If you just want the books 100%, then unfortunately you have to read the books.

Taking a book and transcribing it perfectly to a TV series may not always be the best thing to do, but it's certainly better than what we've got with Robb's storyline: plot-holes, inconsistencies, and completely unlikeable characters.

Maybe they could make Jojen and Meera more interesting? Meera is hardly a character in the books, and Jojen is kinda dull. Also, it doesnt look like Osha will be leaving just yet, so that should keep things interesting. The way they were introduced in episode 2 was pretty fairly dramatic., it gives me some hope.

I'm sorry but over the last few days I keep seeing you write this about non-POV characters. And I just have to wonder... why do you bother reading such complex books if you're not going to pay attention to non-POV characters? Meera is a fully fleshed out character, but she's told from the perspective of a 9-year old. She's not as important as Bran to the narrative of course, but she's still a complex character in her own right.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

While I didn't have any problem with Robb killing Karstark in the book. If I was in showrobb's shoes and knew that half my army would leave if I killed their lord. I think i'd choose option b and put him in a cell. I don't really understand why they would change Robb's reason for going to the twins anyway. Nothing wrong with trying to take back your homeland imo.

[PatrickStormborn]

While I didn't have any problem with Robb killing Karstark in the book. If I was in showrobb's shoes and knew that half my army would leave if I killed their lord. I think i'd choose option b and put him in a cell. I don't really understand why they would change Robb's reason for going to the twins anyway. Nothing wrong with trying to take back your homeland imo.

It makes even less sense considering that, two episodes ago, Robb shouted at Edmure for wasting men because "We need our men more than Tywin needs his".

[TomBadgerlock]

which is why Game of Thrones will never be one of the best TV shows. There are just too many plot-holes and glaring inconsistencies.

You do not get to judge what qualifies as "one of the best TV shows". You don't have to like it. Millions of others do.

[Currawong]

It makes even less sense considering that, two episodes ago, Robb shouted at Edmure for wasting men because "We need our men more than Tywin needs his".

Well, it does make perfect sense when you remember that Robb is just like Ned and is 'honorable' to the point of complete stupidity. Just like his father he can be as thick as a couple of planks when it comes to some of the hard practical aspects of diplomacy and managing people, but hey! he's a Stark so he must be OK. Isn't that right? I get the impression that viewers were meant to think his action didn't make any sense given what he said to Edmure, which was why the other members of his family were so disturbed and concerned at his decision.

[Joyful Union]

I'm sorry but over the last few days I keep seeing you write this about non-POV characters. And I just have to wonder... why do you bother reading such complex books if you're not going to pay attention to non-POV characters? Meera is a fully fleshed out character, but she's told from the perspective of a 9-year old. She's not as important as Bran to the narrative of course, but she's still a complex character in her own right.

I've written about three characters. Selyse, Loras and Meera. Loras is debatable, but I refuse to accept that Selyse and Meera are complex characters. Selyse is a one-note fanatic with a mustache, who is only shown as such. What complexity does Meera have? There are tons of Non-POV character that are fleshed out (Robb, Stannis, Jorah, Lysa, Tywin to name a few), those two are certainly not one of them.

[Mulled Wino]

The point is to adapt the novels into a show that is strictly good television. Not to translate verbatim what happens in books to television. Because taking a book and transcribing it perfectly to a TV series is impossible and not necessarily the best thing to do. If you just want the books 100%, then unfortunately you have to read the books.

Starks, Boltons, Karstarks, Freys Tullys, Blackwoods, Umbers but Karstarks are half. IDGAF about actual numbers, just make it make some goddam sense. Its impossible to make sense now though because NOTHING Robb has done yet this season andmost of last makes any sense at all.

I wonder if anyone is curious as to where Greatjohn is that has seen the whole series but not read the books. I also wonder why they gave Jon the Freys in season 1 or 2 and now they are no longer with him. How does one do that?

[Mulled Wino]

You do not get to judge what qualifies as "one of the best TV shows". You don't have to like it. Millions of others do.

Of course he does. Its his opinion.

Just because a lot of people like something doesnt mean its good. Hell, millions uponmillions of people like Soulja Boy for some reason.

Marketing driven viewership hardly denotes quality work in general.

[Talbot]

But screwing up a completely minor and practically irrelevant detail like the Karstarks forces (which is tossed around in the book like a sloppy pizza) doesn't make the show worse.

Unless you let it.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Well, it does make perfect sense when you remember that Robb is just like Ned and is 'honorable' to the point of complete stupidity. Just like his father he can be as thick as a couple of planks when it comes to some of the hard practical aspects of diplomacy and managing people, but hey! he's a Stark so he must be OK. Isn't that right? I get the impression that viewers were meant to think his action didn't make any sense given what he said to Edmure, which was why the other members of his family were so disturbed and concerned at his decision.

Maybe they are really pushing the robb's bad at politics thing. him marrying Talisa is actually a worse mistake in the show than in the book. in the book it seemed to be like robb didn't know just how big of a mistake he was making. in the show he had Cat's advice of not to piss off the freys and Walder in particular and then dilibrately goes against that advice.

[Joyful Union]

Of course he does. Its his opinion.

Just because a lot of people like something doesnt mean its good. Hell, millions uponmillions of people like Soulja Boy for some reason.

Marketing driven viewership hardly denotes quality work in general.

Well, popular success and critical success generally indicate quality. GoT has both.

[David Selig]

While I didn't have any problem with Robb killing Karstark in the book. If I was in showrobb's shoes and knew that half my army would leave if I killed their lord. I think i'd choose option b and put him in a cell. I don't really understand why they would change Robb's reason for going to the twins anyway. Nothing wrong with trying to take back your homeland imo.

Yeah, the way it played in the books made far more sense. The Karstarks men had already left by the time Rickard is arrested, and there were only 300 of them. Even if we assume their foot soldiers who were with Roose would desert too, that's still only about 1000-1500, pretty small part of the overall army. Losing them is still a blow, but not a decisive one. Besides, two Tully guards were killed too in the books, allowing this to go unpunished would've caused serious friction between the Riverlanders and the Northerners.

[TomBadgerlock]

Of course he does. Its his opinion.

Just because a lot of people like something doesnt mean its good. Hell, millions uponmillions of people like Soulja Boy for some reason.

Marketing driven viewership hardly denotes quality work in general.

Obviously he is capable of forming an opinion, yes. But his opinion is not objective as he seems to believe.

Nothing creates a fanbase as huge and as dedicated as what GoT has without being brilliant. Lots of people like and casually watch crappy shows, but these shows never have the critical acclaim and immensely high average ratings, for instance, as this.

[YTDN]

I usually don't get wound up about changes in the show, but this one does puzzle me. In interviews Richard Madden has said that Robb's motivation is to go home, and his biggest fear is to win the war but to be left sitting alone on a throne with no family or anything- for this whole war to be for nothing. That is consistent with the characterisation in Season 2, so I wonder why in Season 3 they decided to have Robb go after Casterly Rock rather than turn back to retake the North, especially since some non-readers have seen this as a negative mark on his character.

Something I think they might do later in the season is for Robb to change his mind about Casterly Rock (possibly after hearing about Balon Greyjoy's death, which I think will happen in Episode 8) and be persuaded, by his mother or Talisa (or both!) to basically cut his losses and go home (Sansa would be married at this point, so that could be an extra motivation- he's basically lost his entire family at this point). However, there aren't that many episodes left and this could be seen as flip-flopping. I dunno, I just find the sudden change in Robb's motivation puzzling.

[PatrickStormborn]

You do not get to judge what qualifies as "one of the best TV shows". You don't have to like it. Millions of others do.

There's a difference between a "good" TV show and an "enjoyable" TV show. GoT is (most of the time) the latter because it has too many inconsistencies and plot-holes to be the former. In contrast, season one was the former.

[The Mondrian Oak]

There's a difference between a "good" TV show and an "enjoyable" TV show. GoT is (most of the time) the latter because it has too many inconsistencies and plot-holes to be the former. In contrast, season one was the former.

You're right, I don't think GoT is a good TV show. I think it's a wonderful TV show.

[David Selig]

Nothing creates a fanbase as huge and as dedicated as what GoT has without being brilliant.

What the hell? It happens all the time. What about Twilight, Justin Bieber, Dan Brown and all the other ultrapopular hacks and hackworks?

[TomBadgerlock]

What the hell? It happens all the time. What about Twilight, Justin Bieber, Dan Brown and all the other ultrapopular hacks and hackworks?

Nothing creates a fanbase full of adults, then.

[Joyful Union]

There's a difference between a "good" TV show and an "enjoyable" TV show. GoT is (most of the time) the latter because it has too many inconsistencies and plot-holes to be the former. In contrast, season one was the former.

Thing is, you have to judge this against other TV shows. You may not like the show, but it would be a struggle to find 20 dramas currently on air that are better than Game of Thrones. Most TV is shit. And the massive critical succes, coupled with massive popular support does imply that it is a good TV show.