(BOOK SPOILERS) Nonsense

[Joyful Union]

He was king in the north as well, he had to do something.

He send a bunch of forces to WF that were decimated by Ramsey. The rest of his forces he kept for defense, then after the RW he recruited and trained heavily. If he attacked Moat Cailin, Ramsey could take him from behind and trap his army very easily.

There were not substantial forces left that could fight. Some Umbers, but they were basically held hostage. WH is already explained. The Cerwyns/Glovers/Tallharts were all but extinct. Lady Dustin was riding with the Boltons, and the Boltons were riding with the Boltons. There's no one but WH and everyone would be against them.

I suppose that's true.

Yes, but he didnt know that Ramsey was an enemy, as he was reported to have been killed by Ser Rodrik. Robb had no idea the Bolton's had turned on him, so he had no reason to not attack Moat Cailin. Ramsay very well could have attacked his new army, but that wouldn't have figured in Robb's plan.

Is it confirmed that Lady Dustin was fighting or the Bolton's at that point? I thought that she changed sides once the Starks bit the dust. Would she have refused to fight? He also could have ordered the Bolton troops in the North to take it back. They wouldn't have done it, but it still would make sense as part of his plan. WH was building ships, but how would this prevent them from supplying troops to this hypothetical army? The mountain clans, while disorganised and semi-autonomous, coud have been persuaded to fight by a loyal retainer of Robb's, maybe an Umber, yet this never figured in his plan

[Tadco26]

Retaking Winterfell means throwing the ironborn holding the Neck and the western coast out, so yeah, that's a pretty important task. :) It's just weird, this notion of Robb completely abandoning the North to go on a fool's quest into the westerlands.

The problem is TV Ironborn never took the neck, or at least the show never told us they did that I can recall. Yara took Deepwood Motte and that is the only place they took and held that we know about. I really thought they would have her take Moat Cailin at some point by now, but it hasn't happened. They haven't given us any clue what the Ironborn have been up to since taking that relatively strategically irrelevant castle on the far northwest coast and Theon's independent capture of Winterfell. They really feel like they are on scale with post Blackwater Stannis as far as a threat at this point to the TV viewer.

[teemo]

My nonbook readers for the most part have know idea who is where or taking what lands and some aren't even sure who is fighting who, lol. (everyone knows Starks vs. Lannisters, but outside that a LOT of people just don't know what the hell is going on) I think the show may have been able to have done a betty job in conveying this. I know that probably a majority of the viewers don't even care and are watching for just the drama and action and dialogue, but some viewers actually care about this stuff and are confused as hell. Even a lot of book readers are....

[Honourable Ser]

Sons of The Forum! Of Westeros! My fellow posters. I see in your posts the same old shit that would take the heart of me. A day may come when posters finally come to their senses about Robb's storyline and accept that an adaptation is not the same as a direct copy, but it is not this day!

[teemo]

Sons of The Forum! Of Westeros! My fellow posters. I see in your posts the same old shit that would take the heart of me. A day may come when posters finally come to their senses about Robb's storyline and accept that an adaptation is not the same as a direct copy, but it is not this day!

An adaptation should at least make logical sense in regards to what it's done so far in the series.

[Joyful Union]

An adaptation should at least make logical sense in regards to what it's done so far in the series.

The Frey forces suddenly dissapearing is the only thing that I think makes no sense in the context of the series. Other than that, it's not that bad. Still not great, very confusing, but not completely illogical, just vague and not elaborated.

[shiola]

Sons of The Forum! Of Westeros! My fellow posters. I see in your posts the same old shit that would take the heart of me. A day may come when posters finally come to their senses about Robb's storyline and accept that an adaptation is not the same as a direct copy, but it is not this day!

Come to our senses about Robb's storyline? What are we supposed to think about it, then?

No, the show needn't be the same as the book. But as people are saying, there are plenty of people who still want the war strategy to make sense.

[Ran]

The bunch of markers of military forces Robb lays out seems to indicate that there's an ironborn force athwart the kingsroad. Not quite in the Neck, but near enough. I don't know if the idea is that the ironborn have secured control of the North more firmly or not without it being mentioned.

That said, I can't possibly imagine that they plan not to have the Apocalypse Now-esque Reek chapter in Moat Cailin in the series

[teemo]

The Frey forces suddenly dissapearing is the only thing that I think makes no sense in the context of the series. Other than that, it's not that bad. Still not great, very confusing, but not completely illogical, just vague and not elaborated.

Definitely.....they need to find a better way to simplify things. The only people I know that are REALLY getting all of this stuff are the "hardcore" viewers that do HBO's interactive stuff on their site, read forums, wikia, etc. A lot of the general audience is just very confused.

[Joyful Union]

That said, I can't possibly imagine that they plan not to have the Apocalypse Now-esque Reek chapter in Moat Cailin in the series

I think they'll definitely keep that part. I assume at some point Moat Cailin will be mentioned, maybe it will be announced that the Ironborn have captured it. Then in season 4, Theon will have his Moat Cailin experience, maybe over a few episodes.

[The Mondrian Oak]

Double post

[The Mondrian Oak]

Definitely.....they need to find a better way to simplify things. The only people I know that are REALLY getting all of this stuff are the "hardcore" viewers that do HBO's interactive stuff on their site, read forums, wikia, etc. A lot of the general audience is just very confused.

To be fair, that also happens with the books. You have to be a hardcore fan and do at least one re-read to keep track of all names, places and actions that take place. When I first read the books, I was always like "Who the fuck is this lad now? Has he been previously mentioned?" or "Wait, where the hell was The Crag?".

[teemo]

To be fair, that also happens with the books. You have to be a hardcore fan and do at least one re-read to keep track of all names, places and actions that take place. When I first read the books, I was always like "Who the fuck is this lad now? Has he been previously mentioned?" or "Wait, where the hell was The Crag?".

Yes, I agree. But people who are willing to get into a humungous series like ASOIAF are automatically a little hardcore to begin with. Not all television viewers want to be hardcore - they just want to watch a show once a week and understand it. But yes, multiple re-reads are really necessary to get most things because the book is just seriously information overload. I won't lie - it took me at least five re-reads to really remember almost everything. Sometimes I still get confused with 15+ re-reads, and that's mostly now because of the show.

[Ravi Seaworth]

Yes, I agree. But people who are willing to get into a humungous series like ASOIAF are automatically a little hardcore to begin with. Not all television viewers want to be hardcore - they just want to watch a show once a week and understand it. But yes, multiple re-reads are really necessary to get most things because the book is just seriously information overload. I won't lie - it took me at least five re-reads to really remember almost everything. Sometimes I still get confused with 15+ re-reads, and that's mostly now because of the show.

Honestly, it is impossible to convey so much information in a TV show with limited budget and time. I'm not saying the adaptation is perfect, since there are some incoherences, but those viewers who really want to know these details should read the books. Notice that most of these complaints are actually demanding more material from the books to be included, leaving less space to better explanations.

They probably had their reasons, but I think the show would benefit from a map locating the position of each character before the first scene he appears in an episode. Aside from that, they could have emphasized more the impact of Robb's treason to the Freys, which is very important to the story. All the other details seem to be unnecessary, in my opinion.

[The Mondrian Oak]

Yes, I agree. But people who are willing to get into a humungous series like ASOIAF are automatically a little hardcore to begin with. Not all television viewers want to be hardcore - they just want to watch a show once a week and understand it. But yes, multiple re-reads are really necessary to get most things because the book is just seriously information overload. I won't lie - it took me at least five re-reads to really remember almost everything. Sometimes I still get confused with 15+ re-reads, and that's mostly now because of the show.

You're right, not all viewers want to to be hardcore. But then, I think the show is not for them, just as the books are not for those who are not willing to go hardcore.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

leaving less space to better explanations.

They could do less explanation of Pod's Heraklean bedroom abilities.

[teemo]

Yeah, I actually agree with both of you above. I have one friend who asks me insanely detailed questions like, "what's the entire story about Lyanna and Rhaeger?" "What other bannermen does Robb really have?" "Where is X located compared to X location, how far away are they?" "Can we get flashbacks or learn more about Ned's brother and uncle?" "Can you explain to me more about Valyrian and the entire culture of Essos?" I swear, lol...it's like READ THE DAMN BOOKS!

Buttt, I still do feel that they could do a better job at simplifying some things.

[Ravi Seaworth]

They could do less explanation of Pod's Heraklean bedroom abilities.

I do not argue with you about that, but I understand they want to introduce some TV elements on the show, whether we like it or not. And, honestly, I don't think 5 minutes would have made any difference. I know you are going to mention Talissa, Ros, and Shae, but the truth is that they are part of the main plots, given to other main characters, namely, Robb, LF, and Tyrion, respectively. We may not like them, but they are clearly being used to expose main advances in the story. Thus, they are not completely useless.

[Joyful Union]

I do not argue with you about that, but I understand they want to introduce some TV elements on the show, whether we like it or not.

I guess they were trying to make up for the lack of member jokes

[Ravi Seaworth]

I read GoT before the show, but I only started reading the other books after season 2. So, as a non-reader, at the time, I felt confused about a lot of details, but I was perfectly able to follow the main events and enjoy the show. That's what most non-readers want.