[SPOILERS] So about Ros...

[teemo]

Irony, surely?

no :\ i didn't quote it word for word...more like, "yeah she's fuckin' hot...even when she's dead she looks hot like that..i'd fuck her like that..." yeah, not my friend, classmate, lol. we don't WATCH GoT in class. I know a bunch of people in class that watch it though and love to talk about it.

[oakenhelm]

It reads clear to me that Joff gets off on abusing women. This was the next step for him after having the girls Tyrion sent beat each other. He had the crossbow then too and later with Marg. I'm not sure what makes it unnecessarily sexualized, unless one can define what necessary sexualization might mean.

I also cannot see how this can possibly be worse than Ramsay in this episode.

[Prince of the North]

Joffery's serial killer tendencies were strongly hinted at in the books in such a way that you get this kid is beyond redemption. He is broken in the head and dangerous. Add that he is stupid and impulsive. There you have a recipe for a very messy reign.

But the show gives the spoilt brat - kinda twisted - impression. I think the word Psycho (While it is definitely applicable) is a slight understatement.

Clearly Ros' death scene is multi layered and not least of which is that Joffery is acting upon his killing fantasies. *shudder*

As a hardcore book fanatic. Who has lost count of the times I have read and analysed the books. I wasn't a fan of Ros to start with.

But she wasn't at all a nothing character. She was the combination of at least 3 different book characters. She provided others with character development, - Even in her death scene. It was character development for Joffery.

I had also come to enjoy her as an unknown force. As much as I am in love with and obsessed with the books (Seriously it's a full on thing) I don't want an exact retelling of something I have been able to effectively envision myself every time I pick the books up.

Yes I want the story I love. But I also want to be surprised and engaged with a different style of story telling.

Her death shook me. I found it to be powerful. Useful and incredibly sad.

I was interested to see what was going to be her role once LF left. She was the one thread I knew very little about in a tapestry I've know better than the back of my hand.

Well at least this will drive some interesting story moments.

This is basically how I feel. For me, the show is not the books. I have no problem separating them and enjoying both. I felt like this was a great way to show that Joff's sadism is escalating, show us a bit more about Littlefinger, and set up why the Tyrells would realize that there's no way Margaery could marry that monster. Not to mention that it also shows us more about the nature of "game of thrones" in general and reduces the cast in a series which will always have a problem with the sheer number of characters. In the game of thrones you win or you die, indeed :frown5:

[oakenhelm]

no :\ i didn't quote it word for word...more like, "yeah she's fuckin' hot...even when she's dead she looks hot like that..i'd fuck her like that..." yeah, not my friend, classmate, lol. we don't WATCH GoT in class. I know a bunch of people in class that watch it though and love to talk about it.

Pretty sick. But lets not forget the cadre of posters here that find Ramsay devilishly cute or the strange sexual subtext some have on here when discussing him.

[PatrickStormborn]

This should be an Esmé Bianco appreciation thread!

I like the actress, she is very beautiful with her fine skin. And I liked the way she played her character. And if nudity is gratitious then so is killing and finger-flaying.

1) I have been very vocal in my complaints about the gratutious torture of Theon.

2) Theon's scenes have not been over-sexualised.

Well the unnecessary sexuality was Ros' main job in the show, so in a way it makes sense for her to go that way. But even so, the "events" leading to her death were cheap from beginning to end, pretty much like this episode.

Yes, she was designed simply for sexposition which is problematic in itself. But that doesn't mean her death needed to be sexualised.

[Lord Commander Tollett]

Poor Ros, but there was never going to be a happy ending for her..

[TheEvilKing]

This is basically how I feel. For me, the show is not the books. I have no problem separating them and enjoying both. I felt like this was a great way to show that Joff's sadism is escalating, show us a bit more about Littlefinger, and set up why the Tyrells would realize that there's no way Margaery could marry that monster. Not to mention that it also shows us more about the nature of "game of thrones" in general and reduces the cast in a series which will always have a problem with the sheer number of characters. In the game of thrones you win or you die, indeed :frown5:

Agreed. It was a great little scene which serves multiple purposes. I'll also note that it was Joffrey's first kill with his own hands, which shows that his monstrousness is escalating.

I think it'll lead to Tywin's discussion with Joff, which in turn will lead to Joffrey making Loras a Kingsguard just to spite his grandfather.

[ChromeWeasel]

It reads clear to me that Joff gets off on abusing women. This was the next step for him after having the girls Tyrion sent beat each other. He had the crossbow then too and later with Marg. I'm not sure what makes it unnecessarily sexualized, unless one can define what necessary sexualization might mean.

I also cannot see how this can possibly be worse than Ramsay in this episode.

I don't think it's anything to do with women, so much as Joffrey just likes to assert absolute authority over everyone. He does it to both men and women. The butcher's boy and Tyrion being examples of men he's pushed around. It looked like he was going to personally kill Mishka the butcher's boy until Arya intervened. Poor Ros simply didn't have anyone around to help her out.

[Dove]

Pretty sick. But lets not forget the cadre of posters here that find Ramsay devilishly cute or the strange sexual subtext some have on here when discussing him.

Yeah, honestly, as gross as schala's classmate sounds I can't even muster up any surprise after seeing some of the posts on this forum alone about such things - and that kind of thing is moderated here, so just imagine the internet at large.

I guess at this point I'm just kind of relieved and pleasantly surprised this thread isn't pages and pages of hateful bile directed towards a victimized character. Take solace in the little things, haha. (then again I haven't read the first ten pages of this thread so maybe it is?? IDK)

[oakenhelm]

1) I have been very vocal in my complaints about the gratutious torture of Theon.

2) Theon's scenes have not been over-sexualised.

I'm with you there

Yes, she was designed simply for sexposition which is problematic in itself. But that doesn't mean her death needed to be sexualised.

Yeah but if you are selling her to Joff, then I disagree. That's been his growing MO.

[Khal Vader]

I for one will miss Ros. Though not a book character, I thought she was very well done. But alas, she was quite expendable.

[bobbybuilderton]

As far as killing her goes, regardless of the method, I think they are setting it up so that it turns out that Margaery wasn't as good at manipulating him as we thought. From Joffrey's perspective he probably saw that people love him and that they admire his ruthlessness and sadism. Rather than neutering him, it is reinforcing the idea he has that he can do anything he wants, so he's going to indulge himself even more.

[teemo]

my significant other said when we saw the dead body, "who is that???" lol...guess she didn't leave the biggest impression on everyone...

[oakenhelm]

I don't think it's anything to do with women, so much as Joffrey just likes to assert absolute authority over everyone. He does it to both men and women. The butcher's boy and Tyrion being examples of men he's pushed around. It looked like he was going to personally kill Mishka the butcher's boy until Arya intervened. Poor Ros simply didn't have anyone around to help her out.

Yes, all true, but I think Joff is basically unable to have sex (normally). But he is still human and has sexual urges that have to come out some way. IMHO, the two scenes with Ros were his way of sex. I'm also betting he was aroused when talking with Marg.

[Abaddon]

Some really good commentary here, mixed in with the usual pathetic whining and bitching. (And no PatrickStormborn although I don't completely agree with you I am not lumping you in as whining and bitching, but with the good commentary).

I had grown to be quite fond of Ros, actually, and was pretty devastated by the scene. Shocking and brutal. Very effective in showing that the "kinder and gentler" Joffrey Margary has been striving to create has in fact pointed him more directly at his latent misogyny and sadism (not that it wasn't going to happen anyway). I think the sexualization was absolutely consistent with Joffrey's warped character. And I agree that this is clearly a huge part of the turning point in the Tyrell/Lannister alliance as embodied by the engagement of Margary to Joffrey.

I agree that the Joffrey we are seeing here is more developed in his agency but, as others have mentioned upthread, it makes sense since he is older. I think D&D have been very consistent in giving some of what was done at Cersei's hand in the books to Joffrey and I understand and think it is cohesive and thoughtfully done.

I thought it was also a very humanizing moment for Varys.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

That was ridiculous to begin with. A 25 yr old woman can't pretend she's 14.

Would have been hilarious to see them try it though :leaving:

[Zarkovich]

D&D plainly were a bit worried that the viewers would think that maybe Joff is becoming soft. That one scene sure took care of that.

But I absolutely love the LF-Varys scenes. The chaos ladder dialogue just took the cake.

[King Tyrion I]

It reads clear to me that Joff gets off on abusing women. This was the next step for him after having the girls Tyrion sent beat each other. He had the crossbow then too and later with Marg. I'm not sure what makes it unnecessarily sexualized, unless one can define what necessary sexualization might mean.

I also cannot see how this can possibly be worse than Ramsay in this episode.

Both scenes add to the horror.

Ros' death adds to Joffrey's sadism.

[ChromeWeasel]

Yes, all true, but I think Joff is basically unable to have sex (normally). But he is still human and has sexual urges that have to come out some way. IMHO, the two scenes with Ros were his way of sex. I'm also betting he was aroused when talking with Marg.

That's a huge jump of conjecture. The only thing I'm aware of supporting that theory even in the slightes is when Joffrey beat Tyrions whores instead of having sex with them.

Joffrey NOT wanting to have sex with prostitutes could easily be a lesson learned from him mother, who hated Roberts womanizing. Or from his grandfather, who clearly thinks whores are ignoble. Or it could simply have been a matter of Joffrey preferring to dominate Tyrion by abusing his 'gift' of whores, rather than be sucked in and owe anything to his uncle. Joffrey could easily be paranoid, whether of a gift from Tyrion or not, and simply not want to catch a disease. To be honest, NOT having sex with random whores is probably one of the smartest things that Joffrey has done in the show.

I would hope that people don't automatically assume that any time a man chooses not to have sex automatically means that he has to be gay or impotent. And on top of things, that man has to be murderously crazy because he's impotent. Reverse that situation and make Joffrey a woman, who's frigid and/or uninterested in sex, and therefore she wants to dominate and murder all the men around here and see how fair that assumption seems.

[swoosh stark]

i guess margary had no effect, LOL.