Who's controlling the Lannister forces?

[Winterz]

I think Daven's probably taking over now, which won't last too long as he's slated to be playing the role of Robb Stark in the Red Wedding 2. Which is a shame, I kind of like him.

The thing I can't understand about this supposed RW2 is why would it happen? The Lannisters are so damn crippled that butchering a few more would make few changes. Unless they're planning to kill Jaime or Cersei on that..which I doubt.

And by the way, if it happens I'm starting to think noble weddings are gonna be called off from then on, considering how damn bloody they have been in the past few recent years of its history :P

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I have heard this so many times now, but it leaves me confused. Is it confirmed in the text (or by GRRM, which I would doubt) or is it a strongly held theory. I have no doubt that Stoneheart is going to massacre those at Riverrun, but will it really be because of Daven's wedding.

Daven and Jaime talking about Daven's future (paraphrased):

Jaime: "Are you going to follow through on your marriage contract?"

Daven: "Don't worry, I'll marry my stoat. I know what happened to Robb Stark."

The joke being that, unlike Robb, it will be keeping his oath that causes Daven's death.

Then you have the strong foreshadowing that Lady Stoneheart is going to engineer the retaking of Riverrun (Emmon Frey's "let no man take it from me" or however it was worded). Most of the staff at Riverrun are also still Tully loyalists. And a wedding at the crown jewel castle in the Riverlands, attended by both Lannisters and Freys, is the perfect opportunity for payback.

The thing I can't understand about this supposed RW2 is why would it happen?

1. Revenge. And not just Lannisters; Freys, too.

2. In the process of retaking Riverrun.

[firepoet]

The thing I can't understand about this supposed RW2 is why would it happen? The Lannisters are so damn crippled that butchering a few more would make few changes. Unless they're planning to kill Jaime or Cersei on that..which I doubt.

And by the way, if it happens I'm starting to think noble weddings are gonna be called off from then on, considering how damn bloody they have been in the past few recent years of its history :P

It's just a revenge thing. It's not about the strategic value.

[Mark Antony]

Daven and Jaime talking about Daven's future (paraphrased):

Jaime: "Are you going to follow through on your marriage contract?"

Daven: "Don't worry, I'll marry my stoat. I know what happened to Robb Stark."

The joke being that, unlike Robb, it will be keeping his oath that causes Daven's death.

Then you have the strong foreshadowing that Lady Stoneheart is going to engineer the retaking of Riverrun (Emmon Frey's "let no man take it from me" or however it was worded). Most of the staff at Riverrun are also still Tully loyalists. And a wedding at the crown jewel castle in the Riverlands, attended by both Lannisters and Freys, is the perfect opportunity for payback.

1. Revenge. And not just Lannisters; Freys, too.

2. In the process of retaking Riverrun.

Gods i hope this happens, Not to mention Tom O Sevens is perfectly placed.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Gods i hope this happens, Not to mention Tom O Sevens is perfectly placed.

Yep, that too. It's gonna be a good one.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

Bloody typical of Martin to make doomed Daven so immediately likeable, I'll mourn him more sincerely than Robb

[Minstral]

Daven and Jaime talking about Daven's future (paraphrased):

Jaime: "Are you going to follow through on your marriage contract?"

Daven: "Don't worry, I'll marry my stoat. I know what happened to Robb Stark."

The joke being that, unlike Robb, it will be keeping his oath that causes Daven's death.

Then you have the strong foreshadowing that Lady Stoneheart is going to engineer the retaking of Riverrun (Emmon Frey's "let no man take it from me" or however it was worded). Most of the staff at Riverrun are also still Tully loyalists. And a wedding at the crown jewel castle in the Riverlands, attended by both Lannisters and Freys, is the perfect opportunity for payback.

1. Revenge. And not just Lannisters; Freys, too.

2. In the process of retaking Riverrun.

Well, it would be a change of pace for the Lannisters to take after the Starks at this point in the game, ie die like crazy.

[Fire Eater]

Daven and Jaime talking about Daven's future (paraphrased):

Jaime: "Are you going to follow through on your marriage contract?"

Daven: "Don't worry, I'll marry my stoat. I know what happened to Robb Stark."

The joke being that, unlike Robb, it will be keeping his oath that causes Daven's death.

Not to mention Jaime's description of a dead Tywin: Bloody hell he looks like a bridegroom at his bedding.

As for Emmon the quote you are referring to:

Lord Emmon rubbed his mouth. His hand came away red and slimy from the sourleaf. "To be sure. Riverrun is mine, and no man shall ever take it from me."

[Young Nan]

wouldn't it be kind of corny to have Daven massacred at a wedding also? I mean, I want justice for the victims of the RW as much as the next guy, but from a literary standpoint another RW doesn't seem creative.

I like Daven too. damn.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

wouldn't it be kind of corny to have Daven massacred at a wedding also? I mean, I want justice for the victims of the RW as much as the next guy, but from a literary standpoint another RW doesn't seem creative.

I like Daven too. damn.

It's not about being creative, it's about symmetry.

[Young Nan]

It's not about being creative, it's about symmetry.

I suppose so, it just doesn't seem to have the same gravity as it did the first time. Its like Ramsay getting flayed to death or something; it would be fitting and all, but kind of contrived to have someone get what they deserve in such a literal way, its too neat.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Daven is in command ot the army and Damion as castellan of the Rock would probably listen to him. But it's actually Cersei that is in charge. She is the Lady Paramount of the Westerlands.

Seven Gods, the Lannisters are lucky if she doesn't order Daven to do something which would cause him to rebel against her.

But Jaime is missing.

So we've got this really BIG army with no leader right now. Even more important, with no head authorizing their pay, etc. So what's going to happen to said army?

Casterly Rock can survive because I've no doubt the stewart will run it well as Tywin and the family have long since been removed from permanent residence. Until they figure out who's the heir.

There is no "big" anymore. The Lannister army is down to ~3,000 men, split in two sizeable :cool4: contingents with Daven in the Riverlands and on Dragonstone and a couple smaller ones.

[MsLibby]

Daven is in command ot the army and Damion as castellan of the Rock would probably listen to him. But it's actually Cersei that is in charge. She is the Lady Paramount of the Westerlands.

Seven Gods, the Lannisters are lucky if she doesn't order Daven to do something which would cause him to rebel against her.

There is no "big" anymore. The Lannister army is down to ~3,000 men, split in two sizeable :cool4: contingents with Daven in the Riverlands and on Dragonstone and a couple smaller ones.

Where did you find those numbers from? That sounds quite small. Smaller than a peace time army actually.

[finger]

But Jaime is missing.

So we've got this really BIG army with no leader right now. Even more important, with no head authorizing their pay, etc. So what's going to happen to said army?

Casterly Rock can survive because I've no doubt the stewart will run it well as Tywin and the family have long since been removed from permanent residence. Until they figure out who's the heir.

Warden of the West is an honorific title in times of peace, but the armies overlord in times of war. Forget about Jamie, his job is in KL, not Casterly Rock. Sometimes they may act together, as in Riverrrun, but they both have their specific task to mind about.

[finger]

i think in terms of in charge of the solders in the field, as in actually there running things its probably Ser Addam Marbrand

IIRC, AM is the LC of the Golden cloaks, quite another job.

[Golden&Crimson]

There is no "big" anymore. The Lannister army is down to ~3,000 men, split in two sizeable :cool4: contingents with Daven in the Riverlands and on Dragonstone and a couple smaller ones.

The Lannisters still have, at the minimum, about 15.000 veterans from Tywin´s host, another 5.000 experienced men from the host of Jaime and some thousands (maybe around 5.000) survivors from the host of Stafford.

They are far from being in the comatose condition that are the Starks.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Daven is Warden of the West so he has the commanding position. Cersei is the Lady of Casterly Rock but they won't be taking any orders from her.

[finger]

Daven and Jaime talking about Daven's future (paraphrased):

Jaime: "Are you going to follow through on your marriage contract?"

Daven: "Don't worry, I'll marry my stoat. I know what happened to Robb Stark."

The joke being that, unlike Robb, it will be keeping his oath that causes Daven's death.

Then you have the strong foreshadowing that Lady Stoneheart is going to engineer the retaking of Riverrun (Emmon Frey's "let no man take it from me" or however it was worded). Most of the staff at Riverrun are also still Tully loyalists. And a wedding at the crown jewel castle in the Riverlands, attended by both Lannisters and Freys, is the perfect opportunity for payback.

1. Revenge. And not just Lannisters; Freys, too.

2. In the process of retaking Riverrun.

I won't say it doesn't make some sense, but I do think the Rat Cook show has already been performed.

Littlefinger and his brand new Vale army will do with the Freys, and take Riverrrun for himself. Revenge will be a excuse for the Arryn people, but greed will be their true motion.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Where did you find those numbers from? That sounds quite small. Smaller than a peace time army actually.

The Lannisters still have, at the minimum, about 15.000 veterans from Tywin´s host, another 5.000 experienced men from the host of Jaime and some thousands (maybe around 5.000) survivors from the host of Stafford.

They are far from being in the comatose condition that are the Starks.

Adding up the remaining hosts after most of the Lannister soldiers were sent home in Feast.

- Daven ~1000 (half the Freys numbers at Riverrun)

- Dragonstone ~1000 (2,000 sent there, 1,000 lost when Loras took it)

- ~500 split between Lancel, Kevan and Casterley Rock (the former honor guard for Tywin's corpse)

- Jaime 250 + a bit (the Westermen portion of his 500 and the former party of the Mountain)

some small parties here and there.

The rest has gone home and would need to reassembled. A time-consuming process under the best circumstances, but neither winter, nor low morale, nor Cersei in command are "best circumstances". Quite the opposite. It's extremely unlikely that we will see any Westermen outside of an direct attack on the Westerlands before spring.

And the numbers Golden&Crimson put forward are rather a generous maximum than the minimum.

[Golden&Crimson]

Adding up the remaining hosts after most of the Lannister soldiers were sent home in Feast.

- Daven ~1000 (half the Freys numbers at Riverrun)

- Dragonstone ~1000 (2,000 sent there, 1,000 lost when Loras took it)

- ~500 split between Lancel, Kevan and Casterley Rock (the former honor guard for Tywin's corpse)

- Jaime 250 + a bit (the Westermen portion of his 500 and the former party of the Mountain)

some small parties here and there.

The rest has gone home and would need to reassembled. A time-consuming process under the best circumstances, but neither winter, nor low morale, nor Cersei in command are "best circumstances". Quite the opposite. It's extremely unlikely that we will see any Westermen outside of an direct attack on the Westerlands before spring.

And the numbers Golden&Crimson put forward are rather a generous maximum than the minimum.

The Lannisters already showed (in the begining of the war) how quick they are in assembling their hosts - 35.000 men in a matter of weeks.

The men that were send to their home (about 15.000 from Tywin´s host) to a try a last harvest, certainly dont trow away their military skills, their weapons, nor their capacity for a quick mobilisation, if that is required by the Warden of the West or the Castellan of Casterly Rock.

The survivors of Jaime host and Stafford host are: with Daven and better trained now, at home trying a last harvest, or at Lannisport, available has reserves.

Ther remaining men (Cersei in KL, Tywin´s corpse honour guard to CR, DS, Jaime) are, mainly, symbolic forces, but only a small fraction of the human power still available to the Lannisters.