[Book Spoilers] Talisa is pregnant?

[Evilabe]

Excuse me, I've read the books, but I am by no means an expert. Also I haven't seen the episode yet. (Just spoiling myself needlessly on these forums) But why is Talisa being pregnant a big deal? I mean the character is so different from Jeyne Westerling at this point, this is hardly a drastic new departure. I mean wasn't her book counterpart preggers as well? Can't the Lannisters still giver her the abortion tea or whatever? And how does this have any impact on whether Robb will legitimize Jon Snow or not? Why is this an issue? Someone 'splain.

[Lucifer Lightbringer]

Her pregnancy would be a somewhat passable way to make her Fake Arya. She could be married to Ramsay, who would take regency over Winterfell in the interest of Robb's child. Otherwise, I really hope she dies at the Red Wedding, just because it seems like the most cathartic thing to do at this point. Having another Stark heir running around would seriously change the story.

[SatireSphere]

Not dying at the the RW, I'm afraid. The season trailer shows her nursing the dead.

Does anybody have a link to the trailer in question? I scanned all of the ones I've seen and didn't see this.

[Draco_Dracul]

Just like Jeyne Westerling, Talisa isn't of much use after Robb's death, so that's why she's going also to the Twins.

But I found it more surprising that the Blackfish is also going!

He's going so he can escape with Talisa confirming that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant and that she escaped with him from Riverrun. Or at least explain how she survives even if she's captured by the Boltons and used to control Winterfell.

Pregnant Talisa will use instead fake Arya. Usually, I don't complain about show changes, but I hate with the fire of a thousand suns that Robb wont name Jon his heir.

He might still name Jon heir for the same reason Edward the Confessor named Harold Godwin his heir. With a war on it was better to have a capable leader than than a close relation too young to rule, notably Harold wasn't related to Edward at all while as far as Robb knows Jon is his half brother and at his most distant possible relation Jon is Robb's cousin.

[Montey14]

J

Excuse me, I've read the books, but I am by no means an expert. Also I haven't seen the episode yet. (Just spoiling myself needlessly on these forums) But why is Talisa being pregnant a big deal? I mean the character is so different from Jeyne Westerling at this point, this is hardly a drastic new departure. I mean wasn't her book counterpart preggers as well? Can't the Lannisters still giver her the abortion tea or whatever? And how does this have any impact on whether Robb will legitimize Jon Snow or not? Why is this an issue? Someone 'splain.

Jeyne was not preggers in the book.....this is the big kink in the tv story....the fact that Robb now thinks he has an heir will not preclude him to name an heir to the north.....the fact that yrion is married to Sansa also makes him move to write a will as well ....but we haven't gotten that far yet in tv land.....maybe things will change after Sansas wedding....

[Mason]

Did GRRM say something to give the idea that the girl claiming to be Jeyne in AFfC was the real Jeyne and there was nothing deeper than that somewhere? All over the forum i've read the majority of people dismissing that it wasn't really her like it was a fact or something. It couldn't have been plainer to me that it was implied Blackfish smuggled her out and her sister was posing as her to throw them off. There's the hips thing, there's 'supposed' Jeyne being described as less attractive then how Cat described her (not being a girl worth losing a kingdom over), and the biggest one being 2 Westerling sisters came to Riverrun and only 1 left. It also justified that whole seige being as lengthy a story as it was and ending the way it did (No bloodshed? That's not like GRRM unless there's something else going on.)

We still got 1 episode before the RW, i'm guessing that either Robb tells Blackfish to take her back to Riverrun before they get to the twins to ensure his childs safety or she does go to the wedding to add more suspense and have Blackfish rescue her and escape.

[Montey14]

Her pregnancy would be a somewhat passable way to make her Fake Arya. She could be married to Ramsay, who would take regency over Winterfell in the interest of Robb's child. Otherwise, I really hope she dies at the Red Wedding, just because it seems like the most cathartic thing to do at this point. Having another Stark heir running around would seriously change the story.

I think she will just be killed at the Twins along with Robb to drive home the villainry of the Freys and Boltons....and to make it just that more heart wrenching that Robb loses his heir as well...that would probably be the best way to clear up ths whole Jeyne/Taisa nonsense....and I just can't wait till they get rid of shea next season....she's pretty hiddeous .....

[teemo]

When I was watching my first thought was OMG Jeyne Westerling WAS pregnant. But then I stopped...I know that GRRM wrote this episode, but he does have to follow the showrunners overall vision, correct? If Jeyne Westerling is pregnant in the show, doesn't GRRM have to writes like she's pregnant? For instance, Meli/Gendry don't ever meet in the books, but George still has to write that scene. Just because he wrote this episode, I'm not sure that means he was implying Jeyne in the books was pregnant. I think the showrunners overall visions for the series take precedent, for sure.

I didn't get to read everything in this thread, but her lying is possible, I suppose. Not sure why, but I still don't trust her loyalty completely, especially with her constant letter writing....I had this weird feeling that maybe she was lying about who she was writing to as well. But I'm probably being paranoid.

I think a miscarriage is possible as well. And then he'll name Jon heir.

Maybe. I have no idea...

[WakeTheDragon]

I've been a hips don't lie theorist from day one. Westerling was never a spy, they genuinely fell in love and her and uncle Brynden are off somewhere, likely enroute to Greywater with the future King In The North in her belly. The girl Jamie see's is an imposter.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I fear that... this will be, as you call it, a "whitewashing" of Cat.

Considering that they are in war and they could die, Robb names Jon his "second heir" or the one to rule until his child is old enough, and Catelyn says it's not needed, as Robb already has an heir. Like, giving her the "excuse" to exclude it instead of simply saying "he shouldb't be because he's a bastard".

[Montey14]

Did GRRM say something to give the idea that the girl claiming to be Jeyne in AFfC was the real Jeyne and there was nothing deeper than that somewhere? All over the forum i've read the majority of people dismissing that it wasn't really her like it was a fact or something. It couldn't have been plainer to me that it was implied Blackfish smuggled her out and her sister was posing as her to throw them off. There's the hips thing, there's 'supposed' Jeyne being described as less attractive then how Cat described her (not being a girl worth losing a kingdom over), and the biggest one being 2 Westerling sisters came to Riverrun and only 1 left. It also justified that whole seige being as lengthy a story as it was and ending the way it did (No bloodshed? That's not like GRRM unless there's something else going on.)

We still got 1 episode before the RW, i'm guessing that either Robb tells Blackfish to take her back to Riverrun before they get to the twins to ensure his childs safety or she does go to the wedding to add more suspense and have Blackfish rescue her and escape.

Jeyne explicity denies to catlyn that she is preggers and that eventhough they're trying almost every night ....she can't get pregnant.....in AFFC...when jamie breaks the seige....it's clear her mother was giving her moon tea ....how can she get pregnant then ??It was made clear that Twin and Jeynes mother set the whole thing up to put a quick and bloodless end to the war.....how can Jeyne have been pregnant...Jamie told her she is not to marry for 2 years so there is no doubt she doesn't have Robbs child in her.....it was pretty clear....

[WakeTheDragon]

Jeyne explicity denies to catlyn that she is preggers and that eventhough they're trying almost every night ....she can't get pregnant.....in AFFC...when jamie breaks the seige....it's clear her mother was giving her moon tea ....how can she get pregnant then ??It was made clear that Twin and Jeynes mother set the whole thing up to put a quick and bloodless end to the war.....how can Jeyne have been pregnant...Jamie told her she is not to marry for 2 years so there is no doubt she doesn't have Robbs child in her.....it was pretty clear....

Was the Jeyne Jamie see's the real Jeyne? Because that's not clear at all. In fact the physical descriptions have some huge discrepancy's in relation to Catlyne's description of her.

[Sun]

Talisa preggers. Hmmmm. She's almost certainly a honey trap, so I'm not sure I quite believe her. I've a feeling she knows nothing of the RW plans, and the pregnancy is just a ploy on her part.

I probably need to think this through a bit, but the ep has left me so strangely deflated that I really can't be bothered at the moment. Such a weirdly flat episode.

[Stag Country]

Jeyne explicity denies to catlyn that she is preggers and that eventhough they're trying almost every night ....she can't get pregnant.....in AFFC...when jamie breaks the seige....it's clear her mother was giving her moon tea ....how can she get pregnant then ??It was made clear that Twin and Jeynes mother set the whole thing up to put a quick and bloodless end to the war.....how can Jeyne have been pregnant...Jamie told her she is not to marry for 2 years so there is no doubt she doesn't have Robbs child in her.....it was pretty clear....

You can work in absolutes if you want to, but there is plenty of room to believe that Jeyne was pregnant and that Jaime never actually meets her at the surrender of Riverrun. Between the fact she has a younger sister, Jeyne's mother lost her son, the Blackfish not being present, the Direwolf banner being lowered in the middle of the night, and Edmure having a smug look on his face, there is a plausible case to be made that she is on the run with the Blackfish.

[WakeTheDragon]

You can work in absolutes if you want to, but there is plenty of room to believe that Jeyne was pregnant and that Jaime never actually meets her at the surrender of Riverrun. Between the fact she has a younger sister, Jeyne's mother lost her son, the Blackfish not being present, the Direwolf banner being lowered in the middle of the night, and Edmure having a smug look on his face, there is a plausible case to be made that she is on the run with the Blackfish.

This has been my thinking for years.

[Mason]

Jeyne would hardly know for sure if she waspregnant mere days and weeks after being potentially empregnated, and if it wasn't really Jeyne it would be obvious that her mom was in on the whole thing and just told Jamie what he wanted to hear. It doesnt explain the 2 westerlings becoming 1 and the physical descriptions not matching.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Since we saw so little of Grey Wind I'm certain they will kill pregnant Talisa in front of Robb, just to make things even worse.

This brings up a good point. Where the fuck are the direwolves on this show? Robb and Grey Wind should have a lot more screen time together

[Draco_Dracul]

Why would it ruin it completely for you, all they would have done is combine Jeyne and her mother into the same character.

I've never understood people that think Talisa is out of place, but support the idea that she's a spy. It almost seems as if they are saying,"I hate her because she's unrealistic, so I want her to be even more unrealistic," as her medical knowledge is real, that would mean rather than sassy nurse, she sassy nurse and spy. That would be the most hack writing in the entire show, especially if she was meant to be a honeypot. As a honeypot acting like she did would be spectacularly stupid and even just as a regular spy, a nurse couldn't get you much more information than good scouts could as she would only know where they are currently and might be able to guess where they are planning to go, both of which could easily obsolete by the time they are sent, let alone received.

[WakeTheDragon]

This brings up a good point. Where the fuck are the direwolves on this show? Robb and Grey Wind should have a lot more screen time together

Should they? If I remember correctly he stopped hanging out with Grey Wind as much after his marriage.

[shimmy]

Long time lurker here.

I think the showrunners might have placed this curveball in the television story specifically to up the ante with the book readers. We obviously make a sizeable chunk of the viewing audience and this now puts all of us on our ear when it comes to the RW. I'm really excited to see what they do here, and I've always loved the hips don't lie theory, but now think the TV series will kill it off for good.