[BOOK SPOILERS] Time to seriously discuss Sansa

[Joyful Union]

Theon, right? His role now would be, what? To wait for Stannis to kill him? Brienne, Catelyn, Cersei, they are more important than her? Guys, no good author, and we know GRRM is one, would spend so much time and energy on writing a character`s POVs if that character is unimportant. Sansa`s beaten by only several characters - Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion and Arya, when the number of her chapters is in question. Do you think GRRM thinks of her as unimportant? That he doesn`t know or have a plan for her?

Catelyn's actions have had a huge bearing on the plot, and she has had a far more significant role. Her capturing Tyrion, and releasing Jaime, are some of the most important events of the books.

Cersei is beyond a doubt more important than Sansa. She was running the Kingdom for a whole book, she probably had the central role of FfC. She's also posed to takeover the capital with an undead behomoth. She was also responsible for the death of the King Robert, she mothered and instructed Joffrey, the following King. Whether you like it or not, she has been more important than Sansa. Her actions have had a huge bearing on the plot. I cant speak of future events of course, but that's how it stands at present. Much of Sansa's role in the first two books was merely showing us life in King's Landing. Her number of chapters is not a good indication of her importance, because she is merely there to show us the actions of others for most of her time in the books, be it the schemers in Kings Landing, or LF at the Vale.

[juanml82]

Can I just say that genetics as scientific discipline about inheritence started with Mendel in 19th century. I doubt anyone in medievel world would now a thing about genetics, even Jon Arryn. It was lucky guess for him.

People have been breeding animals and selecting crops for thousands of years. Besides a fair amount is simply observable at simple sight. I think there was a broad, imprecise and empirical understanding of genetics before Mendel.

As for Westeros, well we have Ned's study of genetics, which is flawed unless the Baratheons have a magical dark hair gene.

In any case, she might not be thinking in her children's looks but rather how he finds dwarves unatractive.

[Hound's She-wolf]

Can I just say that genetics as scientific discipline about inheritence started with Mendel in 19th century. I doubt anyone in medievel world would now a thing about genetics, even Jon Arryn. It was lucky guess for him.

The study of genetics, may have started then but people have been breeding domesticated animals for much, much longer than that, all based on genetics. My point is that she has a right to fear she could have a dwarf for a child.

[Mladen]

People have been breeding animals and selecting crops for thousands of years. Besides a fair amount is simply observable at simple sight. I think there was a broad, imprecise and empirical understanding of genetics before Mendel.

As for Westeros, well we have Ned's study of genetics, which is flawed unless the Baratheons have a magical dark hair gene.

In any case, she might not be thinking in her children's looks but rather how he finds dwarves unatractive.

The study of genetics, may have started then but people have been breeding domesticated animals for much, much longer than that, all based on genetics. My point is that she has a right to fear she could have a dwarf for a child.

You are both right, I am just saying that making any statements about character`s knowledge of genetics in medieval time, especially about inheriting certain traits - hair color, eye color etc is a bit wrong.

[Hound's She-wolf]

You are both right, I am just saying that making any statements about character`s knowledge of genetics in medieval time, especially about inheriting certain traits - hair color, eye color etc is a bit wrong.

They may not have called it genetics, but I don't think it's at all wrong to say she would be aware of hair and eye color- they talk about the Tully look and Stark coloring and silver haired/purple eyed Targs all the time. I don't expect Sansa to say that she is worried about achodroplasia because the dominant heterozygous allele that Tyrion expresses will cause her offspring to have a 50% chance of having the same anomaly, but I do think she could say "I have my mother's hair and eye color and my father's height, I wonder if my son will have Lannaster blond and his father's height?" I think that she would be aware that a child with Tyrion could be a dwarf.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

She is. I am sorry, but you don`t dedicate that much time to unimportant character. The number of pages devoted to Sansa, number of how many times she is reffered as character isn`t essential, but a very good indicator of what place she takes in author`s mind.

She has POV chapters because she is a window on events. Ascribing independent importance to her on that basis is ludicrous. By that measure, we've never had a Littlefinger chapter, so she's clearly much more important than he is.

Perhaps she was first invisioned to bring balance between her and Arya, but given the fact they are separated for 4 books, we can freely argue that GRRM is interested in Sansa way more than he is interested in majority of his characters.

Sure you can "freely argue" that -- you can freely argue anything. But asserting with certitude that Martin himself believes Sansa is one of the five most important characters in the series to date (and we're only talking through his point in ASOS on the HBO series) seems poorly supported to me.

As for her not being in the top 20, I`d like to hear who are those characters that are far important than she is.

Okay, 20 characters who are more important, and have a more significant role in events: Robb, Catelyn, Ned, Bran, Jaime, Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion, Stannis, Melisandre, Jon, Mance, Danaerys, Littlefinger, Sam, Varys, Bolton, Theon, Davos, Sandor.

Arya, given that she's training to be an assassin, probably has quite a bit of substantive plot to do, and even Rickon. After all, he's the one around whom the Stark bannermen are essentially going to rally (recall GRRM's comment about no 5 year gap meaning that he supposes it will just have to be a 4 year old leading the march).

Sansa's active role as a character was limited to her fairly dumb decisions in AGOT. Since then, she's basically done nothing except react to what other people have done. Many fans of her have a belief that she'll end up becoming more assertive and taking a much more active role in the final two books, but that we don't know that. It's just a guess.

This has nothing with me being `fan` for I am not, I am simply interested in her story as much as I am interested in Jon`s or Arya`s.

The fact that you find her interesting in a character sense (and there is nothing wrong with that) does not make her an important part of the narrative.

To say that this series isn`t also about emotional and psychological growing, as actually to overlook quite a big portion of it. Bran, Arya, Sansa, Jon, even Jaime - their all stories are about emotional and psychological struggle, and for the first 4 it`s also about growing up.

Such changes matter to the extent they effect events. Arya has grown, changed, and acted on that change. She's gone from being an 8 year old tomboy to being a trained assassin. Bran's gone from being a little boy climbing walls to being a greenseer, being able to view the past and communicate through trees, etc.. Jaime's gone from being the reviled, self-centered Kingslayer to the leader of the Kingsguard who actually cares about the words, and has a major plot role to play going forward as a combat leader.

And Sansa? She's sitting in a courtyard making a castle out of snow, powerless, and still nothing but a pawn for LF. If Jaime's arc had him retiring from the KG, moving back to Casterly Rock, and undergrowing emotional growth without still having a major active role in events, I don't think many people would care.

Well, a lot of what you said can be said for dozen other characters. Look at Jaime, why do we needed to know that he saved population of King`s landing, or how Cersei felt about her marriage with Robert, why would we care how Arya feels during being hostage in Riverlands. Because it does matter.

It matters to the plot, and to the active roles those characters take in events. If a character is not yet taking an active role in events, then it is simply a matter of introspection. That may be interesting on its own merits as a character study, but it is not important to the arc of the overall story.

When I hear from the author, when he personally tells us: Guys, this is unimportant, I`ll stop paying attention.

Actually, all I said was that you should consider the possibility that the author does not share the same vision for the character that you do. To me, it seems like many Sansa fans (and "SanSan" fans in particular) have already written their preferred ending to that story in their heads, and believe that anything inconsistent with that vision must be an incorrect interpretation of that character. But in fact, it may be that the author doesn't quite see it the same way.

You simple like what you like and don`t pay attention to anything other, right?

No. I've read her chapters because they contain a lot of information about what is going on in the series. Just because I roll my eyes and am wildly uninteresting in her romantic dreams doesn't mean I didn't read them. I just find them boring given that I'm not, and never have been, a boy-crazy 13 year old forced into marriage. I do find her assassin-trained younger sister far more interesting, though. I suppose that's what I get for reading an epic, eh?

And please don`t accuse me of fanfic, it`s rude and more importantly, false.

I said the SanSan romance in particular may be closer to fan fiction than it is to an actual analysis, and I stand by that. As I said, I think that a great many SanSan fans have already written their preferred version or versions of that story in their heads, consider it a given, and therefore consider it wrong if anything is portrayed that is inconsistent with that vision. And in fact, many don't seem to have considered the possibility that GRRM may not see that story coming out the same way. Perhaps he doesn't see a story at all.

I have a hard time visualizing Sophie Turner having a romantic scene with Rory McCann, the same as I would have had a time picturing something romantic between the child Sansa, and the mature, experienced, Hound. Maybe it'll happen that way, but it's hardly a sure thing.

Btw, it's interesting to me to see how so many fans berate Tyrion for marrying the poor child Sansa, as if to emphasize his peversion, while simultaneously swooning over perceived romantic overtones between that same child, and a badly scarred dude who is three years older than Tyrion.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

And that`s plainly hypocritical. Margaery had a getaway, since all the plans for poisoning Joffrey were already made. Unlike Sansa, Margaery did have a choice, in both books and TV.

Makes zero difference to how Sansa actually feels.

So, for her to tell Sansa - look at the bright side of it, is a bit mean.

Really? So it would have been more kind to say "girl, it would so suck to be you. You're going to be forced to marry that disgusting little half-nosed dwarf, whose family killed your father, while stuck here to be abused by a sexually sadistic King Joffrey, with no powerful family to protect you. You have no say in any of that, you're being horribly repressed, and I guess you're life is just really, really going to suck. I woudl so hate to be you, and I'm so glad I've got an out already planned."

Oh yeah. I'm sure that would have made Sansa feel much better.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think those disregarding her importance because she's just ''some teenage girl'' are exactly the problem that D & D are probably having. No way would she have so much time dedicated to her if she was not important. Not even in top 20? What a joke.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

How has Arya even with all her random killings influenced any event outside herself? Especially, seeing everyone that she has killed has been the basic equivalent of nameless mooks and no one of actual importance in society.

An 8 year old managing to kill "nameless mooks" who torture and kill other innocents matters, doesn't it? But let's see, she freed Jaqen, who may not be done with the series. Using Jaqen, she manages then to free the northmen being captured and held at Harrenhal. She then helps Gendry -- a significant person -- escape from Harrenhal. She arguably saves the Hound's life by killing that squire in the fight, and is instrumental in him being saved by the Brothers, which starts him on a path of redemption. She's now training to be an assassin, which if a pretty good hint that she's going to be taking a very active, personal role in some major events. Oh, and Martin has said that hers are his favorite chapters to write.

Meanwhile, Sansa builds a snow castle.

Besides his fall and attempt on his life being a catalyst for the conflict, how has Bran actually influenced anything major in the book or series? Simply, he has only sat around WInterfel and hung around in the North becoming a tree.

Er, do you honestly believe that his role as a greenseer/warg is not going to play a critical role in the resolution of the entire Ice and Fire conflict? Do you really think he is no more likely than Sansa to be a primary mover of large scale events? Shit, he may be the single most important character in the story, even though his chapters pretty much bore the hell out of me.

[Penguin king]

Oh, yes, we just forget the fact that Margaery had the force of her family to protect her, and Sansa was alone. If Margaery would truly understand Sansa, she would never talk about Tyrion`s virtues and handsomness.

She has a point though. It's not the idea of a forced marriage Sansa objects to. She's happy to marry Willas Tyrell even though he was similarly forced upon her they've never met, his interest in her is just as political as Tywin's, and Cat and Robb haven't given any consent. She even starts to fantasise about it "I want willas, I want Highgarden and puppies and sons named Eddard Bran and Rickon" In the show it's a little different as she already has a pre existing crush on Loras, but It's clear that that's only because of how pretty he is.

The real problem with Tyrion is he doesn't fit her romantic ideals. Most of her negative thoughts of tyrion during the wedding and bedding are about his looks:

"He is so ugly. Sansa thought when his face was close to hers. He is even uglier than the hound."

"She had often daydreamed of how she would dance at her wedding, with every eye on her and her handsome Lord."

"Look at him, Sansa told herself, look at your husband, at all of him, Septa Mordane said all men are beautiful, find his beauty, try. She stared at the stunted legs, the swollen brutish brow, the green eye and the black one, the raw stump of his nose and crooked pink scar, the coarse tangle of black and gold hair that passed for his beard. Even his manhood was ugly, thick and veined, with a bulbous purple head. This is not right, this is not fair, how have I sinned that the gods would do this to me, how?"

She doesn't have any complaints about how he's a terrible person, or how horribly he'd treat her. It's quite the reverse in fact:

"It had been the Imp who saved her from a beating that day, the same man who was waiting for her now. He is not so bad as the rest of them, she told herself."

"I know I am not the sort of husband young girls dream of, Sansa," he said softly, "but neither am I Joffrey." "You were kind to me. I remember."

Obviously the way the marriage was sprung upon her was horrible, and she has a right to be angry and upset, but It's Tyrion's looks and his deformity that upset her the most. You could argue that there's the issue of him being a Lannister, but she only thinks about that once, and then reminds herself that "Tyrell or Lannister, it makes no matter, it's not me they want, only my claim", so i really dont think that's the problem either. If Tyrion had looked like Loras or Jaime Ithe marriage would have still been an upseting and traumatic experience for her, but I'm pretty sure she'd have come to terms with her new husband a hell of a lot quicker...

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I think those disregarding her importance because she's just ''some teenage girl''....

Quite the strawman. No, that's not why her importance is being diminished. After all, Arya is even younger, yet there is nobody claiming that she's not important. Further, since the point is that the writers have somehow failed to translate the book properly, that also gives us the teenage girl Danaerys. And nobody is saying that Danaery's is not important because "she's just some teenage girl." There's plenty of recognition here that teenage girls can be of huge importance to the story.

The problem with Sansa is that she has very largely been a very passive character. The fact that she's a victim of circumstance doesn't change the fact of her passivity, it simply explains it. Further, readers know that she not even an heir. Rickon and Bran are still alive, so Sansa isn't even the heir to Winterfell.

Well, come to think of it, perhaps your initial point is correct. She is just some teenage girl, not one who is particularly compelling or exciting. She's ordinary, in a world where most other characters with whom we spend time are extraordinary in some way.

[Theda Baratheon]

She IS passive at the moment, but as Mladen says, you do NOT give that much time to a character who is simply ''not important''.

I so wish she does something amazing in the upcoming books so that I can wear a smug ''I told you so'' face :P

[Mladen]

She has POV chapters because she is a window on events. Ascribing independent importance to her on that basis is ludicrous. By that measure, we've never had a Littlefinger chapter, so she's clearly much more important than he is.

But even that window is important. For instance, we could have more Tyrion chapters, add Cersei chapters before that, and that`s that. But GRRM had chosen her perspective and therefore told us that there is something important about her. And although you have a point about LF, Varys or even Robb, Tyrion and Joffrey, we have here someone who is delieberatly chosen for the task. Importance in this or that way is a bit difficult to count, because this is all pretty much connected, you pull Sansa`s end, you`ll be pulling entire ASOIAF. And that applies to all other characters.

Sure you can "freely argue" that -- you can freely argue anything. But asserting with certitude that Martin himself believes Sansa is one of the five most important characters in the series to date (and we're only talking through his point in ASOS on the HBO series) seems poorly supported to me.

When you actually see how much time he has devoted to her on both TV and books, especially in Blackwater episode, it`s normal to say he has some plans with her. You just don`t write that much just for the sake of window or perspective. I am not determining Martin`s order of importance, but also I am disregarding the notion that she is unimportant to him. Or, much less important than it appears.

Okay, 20 characters who are more important, and have a more significant role in events: Robb, Catelyn, Ned, Bran, Jaime, Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion, Stannis, Melisandre, Jon, Mance, Danaerys, Littlefinger, Sam, Varys, Bolton, Theon, Davos, Sandor.

Arya, given that she's training to be an assassin, probably has quite a bit of substantive plot to do, and even Rickon. After all, he's the one around whom the Stark bannermen are essentially going to rally (recall GRRM's comment about no 5 year gap meaning that he supposes it will just have to be a 4 year old leading the march).

Sansa's active role as a character was limited to her fairly dumb decisions in AGOT. Since then, she's basically done nothing except react to what other people have done. Many fans of her have a belief that she'll end up becoming more assertive and taking a much more active role in the final two books, but that we don't know that. It's just a guess.

And we can say that half of those characters are much connected to Sansa. Robb would never wrote his will if there were not for Sansa, which would never make Jon an heir of the Kingdom. Tywin and QOT saw in her great opportunity. Catelyn`s actions were also in corelation to her. Jaime`s and Sandor`s arc wouldn`t be that rich that Sansa isn`t one of the main factors in both of theirs redemption arcs. LF`s plans with her makes her utterly importance. You may say she isn`t important, but obviously everyone in Westeros think she is.

As for her passive role, let we just say, she was an instrument in killing Joffrey, she helped Sandor to recover from the trauma at Blackwater bay battle. Not mentioning her role in raising young Arryn. More than that, everything in her story suggests that she will have important role to play. It`s a path set by Martin not me, he was the one giving us clues, setting that path, foreshadowing events. He, not me, not fans - GRRM himself.

The fact that you find her interesting in a character sense (and there is nothing wrong with that) does not make her an important part of the narrative.

Yes, but as I said, my opinion isn`t rellevant here. GRRM`s is. And narration isn`t the only part of this novel. Narrative part, the plots, events, it`s just the road, in which any character can join whenever GRRM thinks it`s appropriate. Do we say Martells and Greyjoys are unimportant for narrative until FFC? No, because, just like in Sansa, many things are happening below the surface. Sansa`s turn may have not come in terms of influencing entire Westerosi politics, but we are given enough to believe, she will one day.

And Sansa? She's sitting in a courtyard making a castle out of snow, powerless, and still nothing but a pawn for LF. If Jaime's arc had him retiring from the KG, moving back to Casterly Rock, and undergrowing emotional growth without still having a major active role in events, I don't think many people would care.

That snow castle scene is as important as Arya`s training, or Bran`s road. her path is path of learning, and I think many readers have forgotten that learning is a long process, it`s step by step. To say Sansa hasn`t changed, both emotionally and intelectually is understatement. I am sorry, but I think her path matters, such as it is, even without huge influence on politics or Westerosi fate.

Actually, all I said was that you should consider the possibility that the author does not share the same vision for the character that you do. To me, it seems like many Sansa fans (and "SanSan" fans in particular) have already written their preferred ending to that story in their heads, and believe that anything inconsistent with that vision must be an incorrect interpretation of that character. But in fact, it may be that the author doesn't quite see it the same way.

I understand what you want to say, but the fact I like Sansa`s caracter doesn`t take my objectivity, in fact I know the things she has done wrong probably better than most of you who don`t like her. As for San/San fans, I do recognize there is something between them, romantic notion and some tenderness, but I am not quite convinced the two of them will end up together. It`s just my opinion. I can`t say with certainty that I know Sansa`s endgame, but I do know she will become more than a window like you named her.

No. I've read her chapters because they contain a lot of information about what is going on in the series. Just because I roll my eyes and am wildly uninteresting in her romantic dreams doesn't mean I didn't read them. I just find them boring given that I'm not a boy-crazy 13 year old. I do find her assassin-trained younger sister far more interesting, though. I suppose that's what I get for reading an epic, eh?

You see, I am man in my late 20-ies. I am surgical resident and I am pretty much proactive person. When I talk to my friends about Sansa, many wonders why I like her. But I do. We don`t have mucgh time to explain why, both the reasons are above narrative. Do I find Arya, Jon and Jaime utterly interesting? Yes, I do, and I spend as much time analyzing them as much as I analyze Sansa. And even some of us, Sansa fans, sometimes roll eyes when she is daydreaming. But, heck, I understand it. After all, she is a teenage girl.

snip

At the wedding, I understand her confusion and that thoughts about him being ugly. Her dreams had just been utterly destroyed, also we have her battling with herself during the bedding scene in which duty and repulsion is colliding inside her. But, in their marriage, the main problem isn`t his ugliness, it`s him being Lannister. When she thinks that they had turned her into Lannister, she is basically broken. She finds the strength in memories of her family - `brave like Robb`, she is miserable while everyone is laughing, smiling and cheering around her. Sansa`s marriage wasn`t doomed because she was married to a dwarf, it was dommed because she was married, against her wish, to her enemy,and captor. Maybe he is kind, not brutal captor, but that still doesn`t change the fact who he is - Lannister

[Master Forel's Fro]

I think those disregarding her importance because she's just ''some teenage girl'' are exactly the problem that D & D are probably having. No way would she have so much time dedicated to her if she was not important. Not even in top 20? What a joke.

I dont think its her personally thats important, but what having her there does for other characters and story as a whole. shes the TOOL (literally) they need to keep the other stories around her going. Sansa importance is as robb's heir it gives her value, the more important roles are the lannisters, tyrells and LF fighting over her.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

She IS passive at the moment, but as Mladen says, you do NOT give that much time to a character who is simply ''not important''.

Yes you do, if your purpose is as a plot device for the exposition of other characters and events.

I so wish she does something amazing in the upcoming books so that I can wear a smug ''I told you so'' face :P

Well, I do too, though I could do without the face. That's kind of the point. I do think she's going to end up doing something very cool at the Eyrie. I really do. And at that point, I'll enjoy the hell out of her chapters. But until then...I'm just not all that interested in her introspection.

Honestly, I thought for a moment that she was going to speak up when she met the Lord's Declarant, seize some control of her own, and state who she was. For once, she'd actually be taking a big-time risk, and a shot at influencing her own future. Instead, she remains voluntarily under the complete domination of LF.

[HopeForSpring]

But the thing is, they are even having trouble with getting LF right, too. In the books he is the puppet master, not the warrior, an accountant, even. We hear about him not from him. The TV series is turning him into more of a cartoon character than a menace...

Cue Sansa - she is slowly slowly turning into a string puller too. I have a feeling as Sansa develops she'll stay hard to represent on TV b/c her impact on the story maybe as back room as LFs.

I don't think D&D hate teenaged girls. I think they are grappling with a character who doesn't DO much and is therefore hard to work out SCREEN time for, because voice overs are death.

ETA Typos

ETA: I'm not saying I think they couldn't do a little better, I'm just saying their failings don't seem to be about young-woman hate, to me.

[Penguin king]

At the wedding, I understand her confusion and that thoughts about him being ugly. Her dreams had just been utterly destroyed, also we have her battling with herself during the bedding scene in which duty and repulsion is colliding inside her. But, in their marriage, the main problem isn`t his ugliness, it`s him being Lannister. When she thinks that they had turned her into Lannister, she is basically broken. She finds the strength in memories of her family - `brave like Robb`, she is miserable while everyone is laughing, smiling and cheering around her. Sansa`s marriage wasn`t doomed because she was married to a dwarf, it was dommed because she was married, against her wish, to her enemy,and captor. Maybe he is kind, not brutal captor, but that still doesn`t change the fact who he is - Lannister

How would that have been any different if she was married to a Tyrell? The Tyrells were allied to the Lannisters and She'd have been unable to visit her family for as long as Robb remained king in the North. Highgarden would have been as much as a prison as King's Landing and she'd be forced to share her bed with a stranger, and provide him with heirs. Yet rather than fill her with dread she actually comes to relish the idea. She dreams her little day dreams of puppies and river barges, even when she knows deep down she'd be nothing more than a means to put a Tyrell in Winterfell.

[gash]

She IS passive at the moment, but as Mladen says, you do NOT give that much time to a character who is simply ''not important''.

I so wish she does something amazing in the upcoming books so that I can wear a smug ''I told you so'' face :P

i'm fairly sure she will do/become something important in the final two books, but as of now, there is little evidence of anything like the "change" occuring that her fans like to write long essays about. i mean her figuring out a guy was working for littelfinger is used by the fans to show how she's becoming a "player"? come on.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

But even that window is important. For instance, we could have more Tyrion chapters, add Cersei chapters before that, and that`s that. But GRRM had chosen her perspective and therefore told us that there is something important about her.

Or about him needing a perspective to show him things other POV's are not in the position to show him. That's the function Davos' POV served for quite a time. Not because Davos was really doing things of specific importance, but because GRRM needed to show Stannis. He needed to show the Hound leaving KL. He needs to show the hairnet, he needs to show some of Littlefinger's machinations, which again works best for through Sansa's POV.

Again, I truly believe she is finally going to actually do something of consequence at the Eyrie, where she is again a necessary character for Littlefingers exposition. And when that happens, I'll enjoy the hell out of those chapters. Until then, if I want to listen to teenage girls talking about boys and marriage prospects, I can hear my daughter and her friends talking about that. But since they're not going to be talking about the Faceless Men, I'll just have to read Arya's POV for that.

When you actually see how much time he has devoted to her on both TV and books, especially in Blackwater episode, it`s normal to say he has some plans with her. You just don`t write that much just for the sake of window or perspective. I am not determining Martin`s order of importance, but also I am disregarding the notion that she is unimportant to him. Or, much less important than it appears.

Wasn't your OP complaint based on them making her appear much less important than you think she is? They've clearly had to trim down some stuff to get from the books to the show, and they've talked enough to GRRM to know how the whole thing ends. If, knowing that, they've greatly slighted her character on the show (as the OP claims)...doesn't that suggest that she's not as important as all those other characters you claim got her time instead?

She's clearly not of no importance. The question is how important her storyline is to the overall arc of the show, and if her primary role is internal character development that does not have a major impact on the overall storyline, then she's likely to get chopped.

As for her passive role, let we just say, she was an instrument in killing Joffrey....

But...that was the very definition of passive. She wasn't even aware of that, and was simply used and manipulated dumbly by other people. If that's the first example of her being active that you mention....

she helped Sandor to recover from the trauma at Blackwater bay battle....

Arya saved his life in a real fight.

Not mentioning her role in raising young Arryn.

Which has amounted to precisely nothing to date.

More than that, everything in her story suggests that she will have important role to play. It`s a path set by Martin not me, he waone giving us clues, setting that path, foreshadowing events. He, not me, not fans - GRRM himself.

At some point, she will do interesting things, at which point she'll be more interesting to more readers.

That snow castle scene is as important as Arya`s training, or Bran`s road....

If you say so. But I think you've got some Sansa-colored blinders on there, and the tint is dark enough that not much light can get through.

[Theda Baratheon]

i'm fairly sure she will do/become something important in the final two books, but as of now, there is little evidence of anything like the "change" occuring that her fans like to write long essays about. i mean her figuring out a guy was working for littelfinger is used by the fans to show how she's becoming a "player"? come on.

It's a hint that her story COULD go that way.

I'm not a ''massive protective fan'' of any of the characters, I actually am very fond of almost all of them. Sansa was always interesting to me personally but a lot of the intrigue, to me, is this mystery over what she is GOING to do, who she is GOING to become.