Reviewing Second Sons

[poggo]

Not to mention he admitted that he actually wanted to fuck a 14-year old. That's some pretty disturbing shit in the eyes of a modern audience.

Well... the problem is, that Sophie Turner isnt.

When she said, she was 14, the audience is more likely to be: "What?" than "Ohh... evil Tyrion"

In an abstract sense, Tyrion is of course guilty, but its not what is shown on screen.

[boojam]

They can do I Claudius, but there will never be a better Claudius than Derek Jacobi, or a better Caligula than John Hurt IMHO.

Also, while they're at it, why not just do "War of the Roses,"

Not to forget Siân Phillips Phillips, Brian Blessed , Patrick Stewart , others a stellar cast!

BBC production was pitch perfect.... yet stage bound.

O well can't get those actors again for the same roles, if it's cast as well as ROME was , should be good.

[boojam]

I feel like taking a liberty and diverting away from the book canon is a good thing when it makes things better. Examples being, giving Marc Addy more of a role in the first season and of course, making shae a less annoying character than she is in the books. I think the show did those two things better than Martin did in his books. As long as it works, I'm okay with it. But as soon as you're doing things which don't work well at all, then you've got a problem.

I know, I know, David Benioff D. B. Weiss are 'veterans', not with the experience ,of, say, the Coen brothers, but they write damn good dialog. Watching the latest episode I impressed with each line.

They have an eye for actors, who (despite those around here who disagree with me) bring more to their roles than either GRRM, Dan or Dave could have given. Dinklage , Dance and Conleth Hill are, I am ashamed to admit, a revelation to me. Dance I had known, so I should have not forgotten him, Dinklage and Hill are new to me.

A great selection of directors, cinematography, production values and music, rare for television.

If the condensations , rejiggering* and re-characterizations upset readers,... that ship has sailed.... but I am sure we will hear more about it no matter what.

(I can say there was been one rejiggering that seems a strange aesthetic choice, but I will ride with it.)

[Alia of the knife]

Not to forget Siân Phillips Phillips, Brian Blessed , Patrick Stewart , others a stellar cast!

BBC production was pitch perfect.... yet stage bound.

O well can't get those actors again for the same roles, if it's cast as well as ROME was , should be good.

Agreed, and I love Sian Philips in everything she's in. She is a fabulous character actor.

Also, one of the very young actors playing one of the royal sons in law l, poisoned by Livia is the now much older henchman of Captain Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean. He's the one with the muttonchop sideburns. :)

[Martinfan19]

[

[Linda]

I know, I know, David Benioff D. B. Weiss are 'veterans', not with the experience ,of, say, the Coen brothers, but they write damn good dialog. Watching the latest episode I impressed with each line.

That is just baffling to me. I spend a lot of time with the dialogue since I translate it, and I find it doesn't stand up to close examinations. There are so many lines of dialogue in this show that almost approach cringe-worthy, coming across as either juvenile or much too modern. I am not expecting archaic language, GRRM doesn't really use that after all, but it is the things that people talk about and how they talk about them seems off to me with some regularity. The bits of dialogue that are kept from the books quite often stand out from their surroundings.

[Dragonstoned]

That is just baffling to me. I spend a lot of time with the dialogue since I translate it, and I find it doesn't stand up to close examinations. There are so many lines of dialogue in this show that almost approach cringe-worthy, coming across as either juvenile or much too modern. I am not expecting archaic language, GRRM doesn't really use that after all, but it is the things that people talk about and how they talk about them seems off to me with some regularity. The bits of dialogue that are kept from the books quite often stand out from their surroundings.

I agree with what you're saying, but can you give us some examples?

[Raja]

I agree with what you're saying, but can you give us some examples?

The Jon and Ygritte scenes from the Climb spring to mind, the dialogue there was not very good at all.

[Ajotanelsona]

On the topic of whitewashing, I've always felt that the show producers look for specific events to "flip" characters from white to black, and vice versa. My best example here is with showJaime:

the loss of his hand

sets forth a series of events/dialogues that changes the viewer perspective from black to white. Because we are only given short scenes, it's seems to be difficult for the writers to paint grey characters. Thus, the characters are stuck as "whitewashed" until certain events drastically change them. I predict we will see a far darker Tyrion

after the trial betrayals and subsequent patricide.

Similarly, we could see a much more unhinged Cersei after

the death of Joffrey.

[PatrickStormborn]

The lack of time to create grey characters is partly true... But certainly not in the case of Tyrion. He has more screentime (by quite a wide margin) than any other character. But instead they've chosen to give him mostly filler scenes this season rather than making his character more grey.

[boojam]

The Jon and Ygritte scenes from the Climb spring to mind, the dialogue there was not very good at all.

Nothing stands out as poetic, or surprising, if you mean Ygritte's teasing Jon , not profound but in character.

There is not much dialog in that sequence, it's mostly visual.

I don't know why some people find the final scene to be cloying , lot of soreheads out there.

[Raja]

It's all just very cringe worthy and none of it seems earned, especially when she tells him he's hers and what not. It does not need to sound poetic or profound, just something an actual person would say.

[Rabid Grunt]

It's all just very cringe worthy and none of it seems earned, especially when she tells him he's hers and what not. It does not need to sound poetic or profound, just something an actual person would say.

If we got something actual people would say, then the show would be very boring indeed. GOT is about as realistic as fantasy gets, but I dont switch on my TV in the evening to watch people drone about the same sort of monotonous stuff they chat about in everyday life.

[Dragonstoned]

It's all just very cringe worthy and none of it seems earned, especially when she tells him he's hers and what not. It does not need to sound poetic or profound, just something an actual person would say.

Want to give us some lines you feel were the worst?

[Linda]

I often find it hard to pin down specific lines that feel "off" to me, it is generally a matter of something not being quite right with a whole exchange. But once I am done with the work for this season, I should look back through the scripts and see what stands out.

I think that one general issue that I have with the new dialogue is that it doesn't feel like dialogue from a book, it feels like dialogue from a TV show and it feels a bit "chatty". This becomes a problem when it is contrasted with dialogue from a book.

[Winter's Knight]

If we got something actual people would say, then the show would be very boring indeed. GOT is about as realistic as fantasy gets, but I dont switch on my TV in the evening to watch people drone about the same sort of monotonous stuff they chat about in everyday life.

I think he means it sounds like Phantom Menace's "Are you an angel?" Or Spider-Man's "Aunt May, I just saw an angel!".

It sounds forced and awkward.

[1234567]

The lack of time to create grey characters is partly true... But certainly not in the case of Tyrion. He has more screentime (by quite a wide margin) than any other character. But instead they've chosen to give him mostly filler scenes this season rather than making his character more grey.

:agree:

This so much. Also few of the filler scenes have added to the show and other characters such as Robb and Cat have been woefully ignored.

[Raja]

Want to give us some lines you feel were the worst?

I think I just did?

I think he means it sounds like Phantom Menace's "Are you an angel?" Or Spider-Man's "Aunt May, I just saw an angel!".

It sounds forced and awkward.

Yes, this. It doesn't seen natural at all.

[Dragonstoned]

I think I just did?

No I asked for lines and you gave scenes.

edit: just saw the enclosed 'when she tells him he's hers'. I can actually imagine GRRM writing that, the worst ones that spring to my mind this season include Olenna asking Tywin if he didn't get up to the same stuff as Loras when he was younger. That was painful to watch.

[Linda]

edit: just saw the enclosed 'when she tells him he's hers'. I can actually imagine GRRM writing that, the worst ones that spring to my mind this season include Olenna asking Tywin if he didn't get up to the same stuff as Loras when he was younger. That was painful to watch.

Yes, the whole vibe of that scene was off, from dialogue to the attitudes of the characters. I find their use of Olenna pretty off-putting, on the whole. I could not imagine that scene as a part of the books, even if the characters were more like that. It would stick out like a sore thumb.