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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

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The only complain I had was killing off Talisa:

The rational side of me understand this was the only part that came as a complete shock after reading the books, but the emotional side of me is distraught for her and the baby.

I don't know how Robb could handle his last moments on earth.

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Did anybody else notice that a WOMAN was killed by Catelyn, and a PREGNANT WOMAN was killed by Lame Lothar? MISOGYNY! TRIGGERING! CHARACTER ASSASSINATION! MALE GAZE! SEXISM!

You saying lame people are killers? Disabled-ist.

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I don't like Talisa/Jeyne and Blackfish at the wedding. Is Blackfish in the privy during all the fighting? Who holds Riverun now? Jeyne/Talisa dying and Blackfish at the wedding will change some things in the future.

Where is the Greatjon and Smalljon? Have the Manderleys even been mentioned in this show? Wendel was not at the wedding I'm assuming.

No skin from Theon's finger? I suppose they still want to play up the "who is this boy" scenario, like it's worth a damn.

The Walder Frey of the show comes across as much more boring than the book's version. Opportunistic pig he may have been, but book Walder was not boring.

There wasn't enough chaos in the wedding scene, especially outside. Did I hear quiet violins as background music?

For this to be the primary motivation for D+D to make this show (ignoring $$), I was hoping for a little more power to the scene on the level of the Battle of the Blackwater episode.

Can anyone explain just why Walder gave an attractive woman to Edmure in the books? Edumure is not landless and a hostage, so what did he gain? Did he fear Edmure would back out if she was ugly after coming all that way?

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Also, where are all of the crowns? Robb isn't wearing a crown, Dany no crown, can't remember if Stannis donned a crown or not, even Joff isn't wearing a crown.

What is a King without a crown (didn't mean to quote matisyahu there)?

"A crown for King"- Khal Drogo

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The last 30 seconds were weak. They should have been powerful and instead we got Roose teleporting into the scene to deliver the coup de grace and then a strangely subdued, almost comical ending.

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Also, where are all of the crowns? Robb isn't wearing a crown, Dany no crown, can't remember if Stannis donned a crown or not, even Joff isn't wearing a crown.

What is a King without a crown (didn't mean to quote matisyahu there)?

"A crown for King"- Khal Drogo

Agree on Robb's crown. He should wear it for this formal occasion. Dany was chillin' so I can see why she might not be wearing it.

I get why certain things (named character Northmen, Greywind kicking butt, etc.) were changed to save on $$, but I would have preferred to have them in.

One nitpick I have was when Robb asked Talisa the sex of the baby. How would she know? Do they have ultrasounds in Westeros? They don’t even have electricity! They can barely keep women alive during childbirth (Joanna, Lyanna, Rhaella, etc.)...

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I just rewatched the whole scene of the RW again, paying attention to details

I noticed a lot of late reactions.

After the belly stabbing and arrows shot at Robb, everybody at the table had a straight face

I thought it was pretty weird, by then you would react instantly, at least with shock

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WOW!

I wonder how you guys can access the forum and post so often

since yesterday is giving me error 99% of the time I try to get in

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Dany being in the episode.

No really. While it set things up for her, Dany being in this episode was really strange considering this was the Stark Show. Also the way Yunkai was sacked was more like Meereen so now im all confused.

Yep, my biggest gripe is that the Daenerys' scenes were included at all. I think this entire episode should have been devoted to the Starks. Also, I thought the fight scenes with Jorah, Grey Worm, and Daario was totally Charlie's Angels campy.

I'm also hating the Arya/Hound scenes, especially this episode.

Overall, I thought it was the best of the season and second to the "Battle of the Blackwater" for the entire series.

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The only thing I did not like was the Reeds' and Osha's reaction to Bran warging Hodor. IIRC in the book Jojen warns him against it, and so he feels bad anytime he does it. I expected Osha to at least cry abomination. The way Jojen reacted by just saying "oh you're like the only person in the world who can do that, you're special" really didn't sit well with me. I won't even go into the Jon/Ygritte situation, or Sam's supposed knowledge of the Black Gate.

Sometimes it just feels like the show runners don't wanna put in too many fantasy elements (ie Coldhands).

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I found a few nits to pick while watching.

1) Robb asks Cat for advice, and she agrees that attacking Casterly Rock is a bad idea, but "hey why not go down fighting like Ned would have wanted?" Seemed really out of character for her to endorse such a rash course of action.

2) "We'll put some wrong's aright." changed to "we'll put this mess behind us." don't understand why they changed this line. The tv version loses the double meaning completely

3) "The Lannister's send their regards" A small change, but I'm not sure why they changed this line either. I really like how book Roose twists Jaime's innocent words into something quite damning. The TV version ditches all the dramatic irony, and i'm not sure why.

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I'm not sure I liked everyone being so casual about Bran warging into Hodor. Isn't the human warging someone that they all can do, but don't because it's hideously taboo and violating and all that? I don't care about changes for the better but I thought the Hodor warging stuff was pretty effective as a "whoa Bran buddy you're getting a little weird here" kind of thing.

Also the Red Wedding was distressing as fuck and hit all the right emotional beats but I thought the direction was sort of bad, especially for all the David Nutter phrase. Some really awkward cuts and staging.

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This episode is as close as AGOT has come to a 10/10.

I could nitpick, but I wont.

This was the most impact-full piece of television I've seen in years, and that's having read the books.

I can't even fathom how thunderstruck some of the non-reader fans are right now.

This episode was awesome... just awesome.

It makes me wish they would adapt all the books into the show.

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I guess it was too late for the show to change this, but they really should have had more northern lords - Maege Mormont, Greatjon Umbar, the Manderlys, at least. A scene with them leaving their arms at the door. The wedding hall noisy and chaotic with shouts and bellows of rage and people trying to protect Robb, the Greatjon upending a table. Cut to a big tent outside and a troop of Freys going in with arms. They nailed Robb's death and Catelyn's death, but not the rest.

The show lacks the sense that the book has that Robb is loved, that he has loyal people devoted to him, that the North is devoted to him, that the North will remember. All we see are people betraying him. Betrayal has more impact when contrasted with loyalty, we need to see these two conflict, and a bit of cathartic Greatjon rage to go with the overwhelming negative dying of the light.

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This was the most impact-full piece of television I've seen in years, and that's having read the books.

You should watch Spartacus

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after rewatching the Cat/Robb scenes several times I've noticed a lot of things I don't like. Overall, I'm happy with it, but there are definitely some noteworthy nitpicks.

*ned and cat did have the bedding at their wedding

*why are the frey musicians so talented

*bolton's whole demeanor was off this episode and I usually like him. he smiles too much and him running away from cat was

weird. i admit, his smile is creepy, but did he ever smile before this episode? his eyes were great though. he has very scary eyes. he doesn't need a creepy smile.

*the "lannisters send their regards" remark and stabbed seemed way more rushed and in a tone of fury than in the books, where roose always speaks very low and deliberate.

*wymen is really hard to spot out

*some choppy editing that I didn't notice as much until after I rewatched it. but it's kind of bad at some spots. It's hard to believe that in the editing room they ended up with this and thought, "WOW yes this is the best we could have done."

*I would have preferred to have seen Cat fall on the ground and start screaming and going mad than the catatonic state. She didn't need to claw her face or talk about her hair, but wasn't the whole point of the Freys killing her because she was going mad? Otherwise, she would have been a hostage. Her acting is brilliant and she could have easily pulled that off.

*madden's acting was rather unimpressive, especially compared to fairley. the look on his face while he looked at Talisa didn't look like shot or horror, more like apathy.

*grey wind's death was a little lame.

*the cheesiness between talisa and robb was at an all-time nauseating high and the heavy-handedness of having them talk about baby names and stuff and all the kissing, blah blah right before they die is contrived.

*I know that Robb wanted to bring Jeyne to the wedding in the books, but I really doubt he would have been fondling and making out with her in front of Walder Frey. I even think that's disrespectful.

*Walder's comments toward Talisa were borderline over-the-top. Well, they were actually. I don't think he would have been nice to Jeyne at all, but about "being inside" her? Yeah...

*Cat having to stop Robb after Walder makes those remarks...what are you going to, Robb? Go punch him in the face and piss him off again?

*it literally seemed like none of the northerners were fighting back at all. I get they're drunk, but the show really didn't emphasize just how drunk they were and even though they were drunk in the book they fought back. They looked like a bunch of cowards.

*the guest right thing wasn't really emphasized, but hopefully they address what a heinous thing they did in future episodes.

*BF's departure was dumb. He has to go take a piss? Really? And who exactly is watching Riverrun?

*Would have preferred a more prolonged sense of foreboding during the entire sequence of events, rather than EVERYTHING IS AWESOME THIS IS SO MUCH FUN (remember how awkward the whole ordeal was in the books?) and then BAM everyone is dead. I know they were going for the 'shock factor,' but that doesn't mean it had to be like a horror flick. The whole feeling that something "just isn't right" was one of my favorite parts of the book many, many years ago. And I didn't figure it out. I just honestly thought they hated the Freys and were uncomfortable as hell.

*the throat-slitting CGI was awful. I usually have to turn away from throat/wrist-slitting in movies but had no issue rewatching this like 10 times.

*oh, and Talisa being stabbed like that looked like a prison shower shanking or something. over the top, much?

surprisingly, my list of pros is just about as long, lol. guess I'll post those in the positive thread.

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I was disappointed about grey wind too. They probably didnt have it in the budget to do his last scene, so they ha people shoot him with crossbows inside a kennel where we couldnt see. Also agree that Frey's "I'd be all up in that" comments were over the top, and Robb starting in anger too- was he gonna mess up the alliance again? Richard Maddens acting has been really underwhelming, all season he's in two moods: sullen anger, and horny forTalisa.

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Sp

You should watch Spartacus

Speaking of which... and I never thought I'd end up using Spartacus as a measuring stick to hold GoT up against... the massacre at the end of Blood On the Sand was pretty much how I envisioned RW in terms of gore. The floor almost flowing with blood from fallen Starks, limbs being hacked, really putting the 'Red' in 'Red Wedding'.

But I suppose the relatively understated way they actually filmed it was more in keeping with the rest of the show. Only the slighest of nitpicks. I think the wince-inducing death of Talisa and the throat-cutting (not to mention Richard Madden's awful, deathly utterance of '...mother') sold me in the violence stakes.

Something something.

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Needed the face clawing for the future Lady Stoneheart to be sufficiently scary. Maybe the makeup was going to be too big of a pain in the ass. But, Catelyn losing it in the book is so much better than the show's version, where she essentially dies inside before being killed physically by the knife across the neck.

The lack of face clawing makes me wonder whether they are going to bring Lady Stoneheart in later. I think they have to as she takes over for Beric.

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Needed the face clawing for the future Lady Stoneheart to be sufficiently scary. Maybe the makeup was going to be too big of a pain in the ass. But, Catelyn losing it in the book is so much better than the show's version, where she essentially dies inside before being killed physically by the knife across the neck.

The lack of face clawing makes me wonder whether they are going to bring Lady Stoneheart in later. I think they have to as she takes over for Beric.

If anything the face clawing occuring would make it harder to pull off LS since on TV she needs to actually, you know, have Cat's face :)

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