Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

LordStoneheart

[Book Spoilers] Volantis and Talisa

Recommended Posts

So the Red Wedding finally happened...

I enjoyed how they adapted it, give or take a few small details which I won't really discuss. (Maybe on my blog later...) One thing that most devoted fans should notice was the lack of the boom doom boom drums, but my heart was pounding hard enough anyway, so I didn't mind. (Also, for those who may say Talisa's presence out-shined the Robb-Cat dynamic, I don't think so. One of the last things Cat says to him in the books was about walking out for Jeyne, so I guess this just amplifies that.)

On here there was a lot of Talisa-related discussion. Many book readers had a negative reaction to her whole story line. I'm not going to defend it, but perhaps this is the chance for D&D to have a golden opportunity. In Talisa's previous appearance, she was writing a letter to her mother in Volantis. Let's discount the spy theory. I think her death should be obvious enough for that. So, Talisa and Robb were legit in love, and the part of me that likes the Talisa story line has to believe that her letter was sent out. Talisa is a Maegyr. Named by GRRM himself.

Not confirmed is if she is indeed a relation of Malaquo Maegyr. Let's say she is.

The Frey's have just slaughtered the pregnant daughter of a Volantene noble. I feel like when the news arises, it will make them pretty mad. Could this be used as a plot point? I know that in the books so far, Volantis has little to do with the story as a whole, and has declared war on Daenerys by aDwD's end. Things for the show can change.

The North Remembers, for theirs is the Old Way, the blood of the first way. Volantis is the blood of Old Valyria, self-described heir of the Valyrian Freehold, and as Viserys II said, the Dragon remembers.

Will Volantis remember Queen Talisa Maegyr-Stark?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought her death (while preggers) was way over the top and unnecessary, and a book deviation that also creates a bit of a plot hole.

Jeyne Westerling still carries Robb's baby at RIverrun, yes? Or was it Seaguard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought her death (while preggers) was way over the top and unnecessary, and a book deviation that also creates a bit of a plot hole.

Jeyne Westerling still carries Robb's baby at RIverrun, yes?

"Over the top and unnecessary". The whole fucking thing is over the top and unnecessary. If it had been in the books you'd not give it a second thought. It was brutal, but fine in the context of things.

No, she doesn't. That theory is (almost definitely) false.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought her death (while preggers) was way over the top and unnecessary, and a book deviation that also creates a bit of a plot hole.

Jeyne Westerling still carries Robb's baby at RIverrun, yes? Or was it Seaguard?

None of that is proven. Someone posted a link to someone close to GRRM saying even he admits that he makes mistakes, and that even he said the Jeyne description change, was error, not because she was pregnant/swapped with another girl.

Jeyne was never pregnant in the books. Her mom made sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

got it, sorry.... misremberized how the Jeyne preggers storyline played out...

but I still see it as rather unreasonable that Robb would risk/bring "Talissa/Jeyne" to such an event. ... Book Robb obviously thought better of it for some reason. ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

got it, sorry.... misremberized how the Jeyne preggers storyline played out...

but I still see it as rather unreasonable that Robb would risk/bring "Talissa/Jeyne" to such an event. ... Book Robb obviously thought better of it for some reason. ...

Totally agree. Even my wife asked why he would do that. Bringing his heir and wife, to the guy he just betrayed...not smart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but I still see it as rather unreasonable that Robb would risk/bring "Talissa/Jeyne" to such an event. ... Book Robb obviously thought better of it for some reason. ...

Well, I doubt Robb would go himself if he thought there was risk involved. IIRC, Jeyne stayed in the books because they didn't want to further insult the Freys. I see it as the show just wanting to tie up loose ends. After all, having a major character just disappearing and not doing anything for the rest of the series would be pointless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the Volantis will send along some troops to support the Golden Company against the Lannisters when they make for Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to belive you wouldn't be a little annoyed about your daughter being horrifically murdered. Could be an intresting plot line if they invest in it though I doubt it will come to much just due to the limits of screen time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seriously doubt Volantis will suddenly declare war with the Lannisters or something. They probably won't even hear about it, or they'll hear that Robb turned into a wolf and ate her or some shit. Although I would enjoy such a massive deviation from the books, if some Volantene noble turned up in Westeros asking questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought her death (while preggers) was way over the top and unnecessary, and a book deviation that also creates a bit of a plot hole.

Jeyne Westerling still carries Robb's baby at RIverrun, yes? Or was it Seaguard?

I think it's pretty conclusive right now that Jeyne is NOT pregnant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's pretty conclusive right now that Jeyne is NOT pregnant.

That's my conclusion too. I've liked the theories about Jeyne, like the one that Jaimie was presented with an other sister, or that the Blackfish may try to father "Robb's" child etc. With Talisa dead we may as well to wipe out Jeyne from the future books, as she will be not playing any significant role. Which saddens me really, as I've liked the book approach to the whole Westerling family, the "witch" mother etc. Too bad that in the TV series they hadn't introduced her, with her anti-pregnancy potions and so on. Talisa was a pretty much wasted character there, but that's an another story. Some changes in the TV series are good, many are bad, but that's reality for you...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TWOW spoilers

* Sorry I don't know how to use spoiler tags.

My prediction is that Volantis is where Massey will find Stannis' swords. It will make sense and add a personal touch to the whole thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although it would be interesting to have Volantis involved in the elimination of the Freys, I doubt it. My thought after ADWD was that the Volantis nobility will be either killed or turned out after they get involved in Dany's war. I think Volantis is a powder keg ready to blow - maybe GRRM is throwing a red herring, but the repeated descriptions of how much the slaves outnumber their masters was striking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe Talisa's family will be the one providing the 50 ships Manderly built in White Harbor. But that will downplay the Manderlys and hurt the Volantene war effort against Danny.

I don't think it will have repercussions, asides from viewers eventually linking that new city of Volantis to the place where Talisa was once born.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its possible that depending on who Talissa really was that it could have some reprecussions on the Lannisters. House Maegyr might cease trading with the Lannisters and might be disposed to give aid to Dany if it ever looks like she is actually going to invade Westeros. If there are powerful people in Volantis upset by her death the most likely short term consequence could be economic. The show has inferred that there is substatial trade between the Lannisters and the Volentene. Then again maybe her parents saw her as a disgrace, she ran off and dishonored the family. Its not clear if her family connection is really that important yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people are forgetting how the Nobles of Volantis fear Dany and her smashing of the slave trade. I'd be very surprised for them to support Dany just because of Talisa's death.

Remember, the Triarch she shares a surname with in the show is a Tiger, and is the Triarch that is not bought by Illyrio promoting war against Dany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the showrunners will keep "Volantis taking up arms against Freys/Lannisters" as a backup story if they decide to come up with an own ending to the show, independent from the books. I think I'd actually like to see that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people are forgetting how the Nobles of Volantis fear Dany and her smashing of the slave trade. I'd be very surprised for them to support Dany just because of Talisa's death.

Remember, the Triarch she shares a surname with in the show is a Tiger, and is the Triarch that is not bought by Illyrio promoting war against Dany.

Triarch Maegyr might have double incentive to drive Dany on to Westeros- to stop her disrupting the slave trade and to exact vengeance against the Westerosi houses that conspired to kill Talissa Maegyr-Stark.

If, for example, Dany's Meereen plot were transposed to Volantis she might marry one Triarch (a Hizadhr stand-in) and have Triarch Maegyr as a temporary ally. I like Volantis as Dany's quagmire over Meereen because: 1 it's the largest slave city 2 deal with Rhoynar simultaneously with Dorne 3 less travelogue for Tyrion et al 4 Dany could march down the Demon Road past Valyria for some Doom exposition. 5 We'd get to see the Lord Of Light's connection to dragons, if any. 6 Closer to Westeros for sense of progress, but still adjacent to Dothraki sea for Daznak's pit scene 7 Complex antagonisms might make insurgency against Dany more interesting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope not

I want Talisa's existence to just be erased. All of it.

I can't stand her character and story line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×