[BOOK SPOILERS] Jaime?

[Katydid]

I have been thinking about the changes that the producers made in the last few episodes (compared to the books) and what they mean.

For instance I would not be surprised if they disregard Brienne's quest and have her stay in KL. This would keep the Jamie and Brienne dynamic and really get rid of an extremely irrelevant story line form AFFC.

Will they keep Lady Stoneheart? I think they may not.

I don't see how they could resist keeping Stoneheart, but I don't expect to see her until the S4 cliffhanger. She appears at the very last moment of ASoS, and bringing her in earlier wouldn't feel right to me.

And I think they're planning on it, just because they kept the "Lannisters send their regards" line as Roose killed Robb. It's important that Catelyn heard that, and blames Jaime. That blame puts Brienne between un-Cat and Jaime, which is a HUGE story for her.

[Rose-Papillon]

I think they're taking Cersei and Jaime/Cersei in a completely different direction than the books. Come on, show!Cersei is GoT's own Brooke Logan, longingly looking at sea shells that remind her of her beloved who she misses oh-so-much... And in that exact moment, he appears! And she looks so conflicted... What will she do now?

Meh. It's obvious they won't have a a rift like in the books. They might fall apart after Joffrey dies, but it would be nothing like in the books. I can't see Cersei being cruel to Jaime for instance, since she's not even cruel with the brother she supposedly hates.

It did feel a little like a scene from The Notebook...

The break up still has to come up though, but perhaps it will be delayed? I can't see D&D cutting out the scene where Jaime throws Cersei's letter into the fire, and that will need a build up.

[six]

It did feel a little like a scene from The Notebook...

The break up still has to come up though, but perhaps it will be delayed? I can't see D&D cutting out the scene where Jaime throws Cersei's letter into the fire, and that will need a build up.

Maybe. I don't know if they'll keep the letter scene in, but it seems like they'll keep Cersei's rise and fall to power, as one of Lena H.'s recent interviews hinted at her walk. So yeah, they have to alienate her from Jaime at some point, however I really don't think it would be because like in the books she manipulates him, cheats, she's cruel and it gets to a point he's had enough, it would be because she pushes him away because she's grieving and she's angry because he didn't save Joff etc so then maybe she becomes cruel, but only because she's grieving so much.

Show only viewers actually sympathise with her and think she's not that bad. I think it speaks volumes on how Cersei's differences from book to show will impact her relationships, too.

[Le Cygne]

The sequence in the books was perfect, that's the thing. This just breaks my heart.

Also when Jaime gets back, he smacks down the Kingsguard for beating Sansa. The whole point is, things would have been different if he had been there.

If he had gotten there early, he would have talked Tyrion into helping Sansa escape (rather than marrying her). He helped Tyrion escape, he would have done the same for Sansa. Sansa can pretend she's happy all she wants (that makes no sense but the show seems to think it does). But Jaime knows, like Robb knew, that when they get an heir out of her, and that's when, not if, she just got a stay on that bedding thing, they'll kill her. Now that he's there if he doesn't do something to help her escape, and most importantly, if Brienne doesn't, what does that say about them? This is what everything was building up to, that they were going to help Sansa.

[Young Lion]

The problem is not even only regarding Sansa, there's a lot of other things that will not happen or will happen in a much different and worse way.

So, we have:

- No morbid and urgent sex scene between Cersei and Jaime next to Joffrey's dead body. Yes, it was awful, but that was the point. It would be awesome to incite a reaction on people.

- Jaime and Tyrion's first and last conversation after Jaime's imprisonment occurred when Jaime freed and saved Tyrion from his inevitable fate. The fact that was the first time they saw and talked to each other since Jaime finally came back was what made that scene even more incredible. Now, on the TV show, not happening that way.

- No Jaime blaming the current members of the Kingsguard.

- And of course the worst, the whole thing revolving around Sansa. Yeah, they will find some way around it, but it will most likely be a poor excuse. They'll probably have Tywin stopping Jaime from taking her away or something to that extent, creating even more of a fallout between both. But that didn't stop Jaime from freeing Tyrion, so why should it stop Jaime from rescuing Sansa? Might be he planned to do it after Joffrey's wedding, but we all know how that turned out. After all, it might actually make sense doing it this way.

I'm still wondering how in the hell they will make Sansa escape with Baelish. They haven't done much regarding this yet, whilst in the books it was a long process that involved Dontos. They'll probably make Sansa flee the scene, then LF appears out of nowhere and takes her way. Weak, but whatever.

[Cas Stark]

The only thing I REALLY hope they don't do is have Jamie go to Sansa and have her refuse his help, and instead go with LF/Dontos...because that would then cement Show Sansa as 100 times more stupid than Book Sansa.

[silentwanderer]

I think it goes beyond Sansa Stark. Another king will be murdered on his watch. Then after Sansa escapes another way because Jaime is too small a man to uphold his vow just this once, then after his nehpew/son is murdered because Jaime is too incompetent to do his job correctly, then and only then he'll take his job seriously? At some point you just got to say, this man isn't cut out for knighthood.

I think the point is: this really goes beyond Sansa Stark. If Jaime believes Tyrion isn't guilty, then there IS a conspiration after the next Lannister in line.

And. after Joffrey, comes Tommen.

The character never got time to process it on the books because he was caught up on too many things.

The show, on the other hand, made Jaime a thinking individual who is not afraid to use his mind.

[Katydid]

The only thing I REALLY hope they don't do is have Jamie go to Sansa and have her refuse his help, and instead go with LF/Dontos...because that would then cement Show Sansa as 100 times more stupid than Book Sansa.

Jaime is a Lannister - - why on earth would Sansa not refuse his help?

[Cas Stark]

Jaime is a Lannister - - why on earth would Sansa not refuse his help?

Maybe because of the big blonde woman wearing armour that is with him who swore her sword to Cat Stark and who, even a slightly dim bulb like Sansa Stark, should be able to see is 100% without a dishonest bone in her body, and who can credibly recount knowing her mother and everything else that went into her oath?

[Guest]

What I want to know is, how is Jaime going to deal with Brienne? Brienne is there too, she is damn sure going to try and take Sansa.

I'm betting he keeps using official excuses to delay her from realizing Sansa is still there or something, and she ends up in cahoots with Littlefinger, helping Sansa escape to a "friend" of Cat Stark.

[silentwanderer]

Jaime is a Lannister - - why on earth would Sansa not refuse his help?

More important, Jaime is her brother in law: To accept his help would be to accept Tyrion's and Sansa is not ready for it just yet.

What I want to know is, how is Jaime going to deal with Brienne? Brienne is there too, she is damn sure going to try and take Sansa.

To take her where? Her brother and mother are dead, her uncles are prisoners and her younger brothers are presumed dead too. Not to mention, they promised 2 girls and Arya is still missing.

Brienne would have a hard time grieving for Lady Catelyn, dealing with Cersei Lannister and trying to make sense of Arya's whereabouts for it to be a present matter,

[Young Lion]

Maybe because of the big blonde woman wearing armour that is with him who swore her sword to Cat Stark and who, even a slightly dim bulb like Sansa Stark, should be able to see is 100% without a dishonest bone in her body, and who can credibly recount knowing her mother and everything else that went into her oath?

But she doesn't know that for sure. That's the point. For all she knows, Brienne is just a woman serving the Lannisters who is just trying to screw with her in order to please the King. Just look at all the games Joffrey has played with her. She basically cannot trust a Lannister anymore, excluding Tyrion, maybe. You have to put yourself in Sansa's head, taking into consideration what she knows and what she thinks.

She doesn't know what we, the readers, know. That's the point.

[silentwanderer]

For all she knows, Brienne is just a woman serving the Lannisters who is just trying to screw with her in order to please the King.

Not to mention, this was around the time Brienne became known as "The Kingslayer's whore" and that is not going to help any.

[Guest]

To take her where? Her brother and mother are dead, her uncles are prisoners and her younger brothers are presumed dead too. Not to mention, they promised 2 girls and Arya is still missing.

Brienne would have a hard time grieving for Lady Catelyn, dealing with Cersei Lannister and trying to make sense of Arya's whereabouts for it to be a present matter,

Silent I gave you an answer to that in the very post you quoted.

What I want to know is, how is Jaime going to deal with Brienne? Brienne is there too, she is damn sure going to try and take Sansa.

I'm betting he keeps using official excuses to delay her from realizing Sansa is still there or something, and she ends up in cahoots with Littlefinger, helping Sansa escape to a "friend" of Cat Stark.

And even if she didn't do that or wasn't able to discover Petyr's plot, it's not as if Sansa has no friends or allies left.

1) The Blackfish escaped. We all know where he's going, Riverrun is still loyal to the Starks.

2) The Vale - a less favorable option but still blood to Sansa.

3) The Wall - when all else fails, Jon Snow is still at the Wall.

Plenty of places to take her, assuming Brienne even knows that Cat is dead yet. She may not, in which case she would not be aware of any difficulty that would cause her to hesitate in the first place.

[six]

More important, Jaime is her brother in law: To accept his help would be to accept Tyrion's and Sansa is not ready for it just yet.

To take her where? Her brother and mother are dead, her uncles are prisoners and her younger brothers are presumed dead too. Not to mention, they promised 2 girls and Arya is still missing.

Brienne would have a hard time grieving for Lady Catelyn, dealing with Cersei Lannister and trying to make sense of Arya's whereabouts for it to be a present matter,

Anywhere but KL and the Lannisters? They could take her to her aunt, for starters. Better than being kept as a prisoner, forced to be married in the family who killed her own, waiting to be impregnated and then be disposed of, once the Lannisters have a claim to Winterfell.

And for Brienne to do nothing, it would OOC.

And even if she didn't do that or wasn't able to discover Petyr's plot, it's not as if Sansa has no friends or allies left.

1) The Blackfish escaped. We all know where he's going, Riverrun is still loyal to the Starks.

2) The Vale - a less favorable option but still blood to Sansa.

3) The Wall - when all else fails, Jon Snow is still at the Wall.

Plenty of places to take her, assuming Brienne even knows that Cat is dead yet. She may not, in which case she would not be aware of any difficulty that would cause her to hesitate in the first place.

This.

[Mendoza]

To take her where? Her brother and mother are dead, her uncles are prisoners and her younger brothers are presumed dead too. Not to mention, they promised 2 girls and Arya is still missing.

Have the Boltons and Freys arrested, release Sansa into the custody of the Umbers and the North is free to make wedding arrangements for a suitable match for the Lady of Winterfell.

Jaime's dad having scumbags murder Sansa's family does not let him off the hook from his vow (in fact, this is what the books are leading to when he comes face to face with Lady Stoneheart, he failed at every turn and the tv show will make him an even bigger failure).

Either he became more than just the Kingslayer or he didn't.

[Casey Siren]

No, you're misreading me. In the books their reunion is over the top, dramatic and completely sick which is a mirror to their relationship. In the show it was emotional and gentle... Which is a mirror of what, exactly?

It was 15 seconds of emotion.

You have no idea how she would have reacted another five seconds later. I think you're reading too far into it.

[Le Cygne]

Maybe because of the big blonde woman wearing armour that is with him who swore her sword to Cat Stark and who, even a slightly dim bulb like Sansa Stark, should be able to see is 100% without a dishonest bone in her body, and who can credibly recount knowing her mother and everything else that went into her oath?

This. Brienne is a highborn lady who served Renly, not the Lannisters, and this is easy enough to confirm. Loras could tell her about Brienne (Sansa could just ask casually). Loras on the show doesn't think Brienne killed Renly and knows she left with Catelyn. Brienne could tell her things Catelyn told her that Sansa knows Catelyn wouldn't just tell anyone (in the books, she talked to Brienne about Arya, Sansa, etc.) On the show, Sansa trusts an unknown servant (Shae) who happens to be pretty friendly with the Lannister she had to force marry, but she wouldn't trust Lady Brienne of Tarth? Who lives and breathes honor? Who made Jaime Lannister want to be a better man? Show Sansa is stupid, but nobody that draws breath is that stupid. And if she is, they could just trick her, for her own good.

To take her where? Her brother and mother are dead, her uncles are prisoners and her younger brothers are presumed dead too.

Somewhere safe. Jaime isn't stupid, and he could persuade Tyrion to do the right thing and help. They've got money, smarts, connections, and Brienne. What more do they need. That's the plan in the books, when Brienne finds her, they'll take her somewhere safe.

[Mendoza]

He'll fail Sansa by being a dishonorable or by being bad at his job.

Door Number One: He doesn't want to save her. He's a Lannister, this is war and all he cares about is Sansa's rape baby as the heir to the North. Fuck her, my brother, fuck her good.

Door Number Two: He does want to save her, a plan is put in place, but Sansa takes Littlefinger's offer instead. This is still a failure of his vow. Him and Brienne being a bumbling idiots does not excuse him.

In fact, unless Arya Stark is returned as well, he failed at his vow, its a package deal, so get to looking for her, Kingslayer. I'd love to see him try to fight through the Hound in his gimped incarnation. I think Arya could kill Jaime now, she's becoming sneaky on the show, so good luck returning that little murdering girl.

You promised Cat two Stark girls. Otherwise, its hanging time. Lady Stoneheart sends her regards.

He'd have been better off leaving Brienne in that bear pit, remaining Cercei's boytoy, and just not caring that Cat loved her daughters. He'd spare himself alot of pain if he just embraced being a man without honor.

I freely admit to being a Jaime hater, btw. :devil:

[Katydid]

It was 15 seconds of emotion.

You have no idea how she would have reacted another five seconds later.

I think it was fast headed into pretty dark territory. When she turns to look at him, he tilts his head, and waits for her reaction; Cersei's face changes when her eyes spot his stump. He looks down at it, back up to her, swallows hard...almost as if he knows the storm that is coming.

She's not going to react well at all. Jaime knows, on some level, that Cersei sees herself mirrored in him, and that's what she loves. When he shaves his head, his first thought is I don’t look as much like Cersei this way. She’ll hate that. And without his sword hand, he's nothing but a useless cripple (according to Cersei's own eventual thoughts.)

IMO, their relationship really has nothing to do with Jaime as his own individual person. She likes to fancy herself as Tywin's son and heir...she wishes she was Jaime. And so, at a very early age, she spread her legs and turned him into her puppet, and he fell for it willingly.

When Jaime begins to break away from her in the book, her "love" quickly turns to anger and scorn. I don't see how they can ignore that for long in the series, since it really becomes all that's left between Jaime and Cersei.