[BOOK SPOILERS] Jaime?

[Hangover of the Morning]

I was looking forward to my moon blood casket scene :crying:

That makes two of us.

I am usually what people call here "a show apologiser" but having Jaime in KL so early just rubs me the wrong way. But, I don't want to criticise prematurely. We might get some awesome scenes between Jaime and various KL inhabitants interactions that we would not have otherwise.

The Jaime/Cersei scene in the final was powerful but it felt like a wasted opportunity since it didn't lead to anything. :cool4: The momentum is gone so any future dialogue or interactions between these too will just lack that initial charge.

Regarding Brienne not saving Sansa: maybe they will throw her (Brienne) into the dungeons...

[JonisHenryTudor]

it does actually. jaime's back means brienne's back as well. if she gets to sansa now it would be really difficult to play out why and how sansa escapes from KL and why brienne goes after her

Yeah that is just going to be weird.....unless of course HBO does the unthinkable and changes Sansa's entire arc in order to trim the season covering aFfC's? Oh gosh....

[JonisHenryTudor]

That makes two of us.

I am usually what people call here "a show apologiser" but having Jaime in KL so early just rubs me the wrong way. But, I don't want to criticise prematurely. We might get some awesome scenes between Jaime and various KL inhabitants interactions that we would not have otherwise.

The Jaime/Cersei scene in the final was powerful but it felt like a wasted opportunity since it didn't lead to anything. :cool4: The momentum is gone so any future dialogue or interactions between these too will just lack that initial charge.

Regarding Brienne not saving Sansa: maybe they will throw her (Brienne) into the dungeons...

Aside from S1, the past two seasons dropped the ball on the final episode, IMO. DT's scene was a complete utter waste of time, money, and imagery.

[silentwanderer]

The Jaime/Cersei scene in the final was powerful but it felt like a wasted opportunity since it didn't lead to anything.

I think it reflects the state of their relationship on the show: their love affair was powerful but never really led to anything. It's only natural their reunion would follow the same pattern.

Plus, puts Jaime firmly in the middle (as of now, the audience doesn't know yet if he's going to take Brienne's side or his family's).

[Erkan12]

First Balon now this... First season was good but now it's going to bad for book readers.

[Le Cygne]

It really is a shame they feel the need to do pointless things like that - - things they know will get the hackles up for the book readers, as well as botching up time- and storylines. :(

This, and the Loras thing, screwed up good scenes for NO REASON.

And no I dreamed of you, I don't care if there are no dreams. A person can wake up and say, oh, what an interesting dream I just had. We have to go back. No I only rescue maidens. No you want her, go get her. You know, we would have settled for a pick one scenario. What's the reason there?

Oh, and they did the same thing with Arya in season 2. Like Jaqen had to kill the Tickler?

I understand, it's an adaptation, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't get the whole no reason thing.

[Mammothsbane]

I'd like to see Jaime interact with Tyrion again. They'll get to talk before Tyrion is in a dungeon cell.

[JonDunn]

It's hard to take complaints seriously when some of them are so minor. Jamie coming back to KL is not problematic at all. Either is Brienne. Sansa will be gone by episode 3 at the latest anyways, and we will get some minor conflict of Brienne wanting to help her anyways (where would she take Sansa btw? Cat is dead). After she runs away Jamie will send Brienne to find her.

[silentwanderer]

I'd like to see Jaime interact with Tyrion again. They'll get to talk before Tyrion is in a dungeon cell.

Me too, he's the only character who actually asks Tyrion how does he feel about any given thing.

The rest just assume his motivation (Sansa, Bronn, Shae) or invent one altogether (Tywin, Cersei, Varys).

[the hound of sansa]

Jaime will have Sansa right next to him and he won't save her... he will have conversations with Tyrion before he believes he is guilty. maybe they can talk about married life! he will be present at the PW, so he won't have any excuse to scold the rest of the KG. and then after Tyrion's trial he will suddenly remember he gave Catelyn an oath and will send Brienne on her way..

i don't like it

[six]

It's hard to take complaints seriously when some of them are so minor. Jamie coming back to KL is not problematic at all. Either is Brienne. Sansa will be gone by episode 3 at the latest anyways, and we will get some minor conflict of Brienne wanting to help her anyways (where would she take Sansa btw? Cat is dead). After she runs away Jamie will send Brienne to find her.

Define minor? Because to me minor is not using a certain line from the books, or that a character doesn't physically look like his book counterpart, or that some minor characters are merged with more relevant ones. That's minor. But to change actual plots, that isn't minor and I fail to even understand your logic. And again, Cat being dead and Jaime and Brienne wanting to keep their promise anyway is the whole point of that storyline.

Sansa could sent to the Vale (ironically), just to cite one. Also, we don't know if the PW will be in the early episodes, they might stretch it, and have it halfway. i don't think they would want too many episodes of Tyrion being imprisoned, tbh.

[Versiroth]

Jaime will have Sansa right next to him and he won't save her... he will have conversations with Tyrion before he believes he is guilty. maybe they can talk about married life! he will be present at the PW, so he won't have any excuse to scold the rest of the KG. and then after Tyrion's trial he will suddenly remember he gave Catelyn an oath and will send Brienne on her way..

i don't like it

Sigh.... his oath was to return the girls to Catelyn... Catelyn is dead and Sansa is his sister in law. You guys are being ridiculous.

[NickyM]

the only thing that truly bothers me about Jaime being in KL prior to the PW and Sansa being gone is there is NO way if I were Tywin, not to have Jaime forced out of the KG, Tryion and Sansa's marriage annulled and Force Jaime to wed Sansa and beget and heir.

Plus if Jaime is even the tinest bit conflicted about helping Sansa get out of KL that would peeve me off. I'm used to him not being -I want to say- sly enough to get her out, try and conintually fail, but if he's actually thinking about whether to obey his father or uphold the idea of getting Sansa free from Lanister which lets admit should be the idea of that promise. Sansa would have been just as happy in High Garden or anywhere away from the people killing her family.

I do think that Cersi will be having Loras appointed to the KG's which will be fine with Loras I'm sure. I also think any charge will be fine with getting Brienne out of the way and having her jailed. Whether it's Renly's 'murder', consorting with the Stark, or holding jaime hostage, or even not allowing herself to be raped causing Jaime to lose his hand (I'm sure Cersi could spin that if Jaime tells her exactly what happened - order of events)

Actually maybe trying to secret Sansa way gets Brienne caught and then Jaime has to "arrest" her to keep Joeffry from just killing her out right. (that would be the best option).

[Mendoza]

I think it goes beyond Sansa Stark. Another king will be murdered on his watch. Then after Sansa escapes another way because Jaime is too small a man to uphold his vow just this once, then after his nehpew/son is murdered because Jaime is too incompetent to do his job correctly, then and only then he'll take his job seriously? At some point you just got to say, this man isn't cut out for knighthood. I'm not exactly sure what he could do that would be useful to the realm, but if he stays true to the books, threatening the life of an unbrown child is not too far away.

What a hero. What a great redemption story.

[Cas Stark]

It only matters if you care about character motivation and development. If all you care about is character action, like the show does, then Jamie being in KL while Sansa is still there, Jamie being in KL for Joff's wedding are no big deal and might even be used to heighten the drama.

If you care about character development then Jamie being in KL is problematic because it means he will fail to help Sansa not because he is not there to help her, but simply because he fails, in the same way, he will fail to keep Joff alive, not because he isn't there, but because he fails.

His presence also throws off Cersei's character development because part of that turning point of going crazy and arresting her brother came because Jamie wasn't there to steady her. Now he will be, yet she will do all the same things she did before.

It's understandible that Tywin would suspect Tyrion of murder since he already despises him...but with Jamie there, his beloved son to counter that bias.....

Oh well. ACTION.

[Katydid]

It only matters if you care about character motivation and development. If all you care about is character action, like the show does, then Jamie being in KL while Sansa is still there, Jamie being in KL for Joff's wedding are no big deal and might even be used to heighten the drama.

If you care about character development then Jamie being in KL is problematic because it means he will fail to help Sansa not because he is not there to help her, but simply because he fails, in the same way, he will fail to keep Joff alive, not because he isn't there, but because he fails.

His presence also throws off Cersei's character development because part of that turning point of going crazy and arresting her brother came because Jamie wasn't there to steady her. Now he will be, yet she will do all the same things she did before.

It's understandible that Tywin would suspect Tyrion of murder since he already despises him...but with Jamie there, his beloved son to counter that bias.....

Oh well. ACTION.

Great points, all. I didn't think about the fact that Jaime being in KL pre-Joff's death could be a "steadying" presence on Cersei's spiral into batshittery. But hopefully they won't try to play it that way, they'll shove her off the deep-end anyway, and all Jaime will be able to do is watch helplessly.

[Rose-Papillon]

His presence also throws off Cersei's character development because part of that turning point of going crazy and arresting her brother came because Jamie wasn't there to steady her. Now he will be, yet she will do all the same things she did before.

This is a huge concern of mine as well. If Jaime returns before Joffrey's death, then Cersei will be in a completely different frame of mind. Presumably, this would mean that their relationship will continue as it always has until the PW, but wouldn't Jaime's presence also greatly affect Cersei's reaction to her son's death?

I mean, the rift between the pair could begin before the wedding as a result of Jaime's loss of hand, but that alone doesn't seem like enough of an obstacle.

[Katydid]

This is a huge concern of mine as well. If Jaime returns before Joffrey's death, then Cersei will be in a completely different frame of mind. Presumably, this would mean that their relationship will continue as it always has until the PW, but wouldn't Jaime's presence also greatly affect Cersei's reaction to her son's death?

I mean, the rift between the pair could begin before the wedding as a result of Jaime's loss of hand, but that alone doesn't seem like enough of an obstacle.

I suppose, in addition to the loss of Jaime's hand (and thus, the "protection" he could offer her), Cersei may well be able to play the blame-game with Jaime after Joffrey's death. She does in the book - - "you should have come sooner/why couldn't you have come sooner?" - - so I can see her going nuts in the show - - "you were standing right there and did NOTHING to save him!", or some such.

Now that I think about it, that might be fun! ;)

[Conor]

I have been thinking about the changes that the producers made in the last few episodes (compared to the books) and what they mean.

For instance I would not be surprised if they disregard Brienne's quest and have her stay in KL. This would keep the Jamie and Brienne dynamic and really get rid of an extremely irrelevant story line form AFFC.

Will they keep Lady Stoneheart? I think they may not.

[six]

It only matters if you care about character motivation and development. If all you care about is character action, like the show does, then Jamie being in KL while Sansa is still there, Jamie being in KL for Joff's wedding are no big deal and might even be used to heighten the drama.

If you care about character development then Jamie being in KL is problematic because it means he will fail to help Sansa not because he is not there to help her, but simply because he fails, in the same way, he will fail to keep Joff alive, not because he isn't there, but because he fails.

His presence also throws off Cersei's character development because part of that turning point of going crazy and arresting her brother came because Jamie wasn't there to steady her. Now he will be, yet she will do all the same things she did before.

It's understandible that Tywin would suspect Tyrion of murder since he already despises him...but with Jamie there, his beloved son to counter that bias.....

Oh well. ACTION.

This. Every word.

This is a huge concern of mine as well. If Jaime returns before Joffrey's death, then Cersei will be in a completely different frame of mind. Presumably, this would mean that their relationship will continue as it always has until the PW, but wouldn't Jaime's presence also greatly affect Cersei's reaction to her son's death?

I mean, the rift between the pair could begin before the wedding as a result of Jaime's loss of hand, but that alone doesn't seem like enough of an obstacle.

I think they're taking Cersei and Jaime/Cersei in a completely different direction than the books. Come on, show!Cersei is GoT's own Brooke Logan, longingly looking at sea shells that remind her of her beloved who she misses oh-so-much... And in that exact moment, he appears! And she looks so conflicted... What will she do now?

Meh. It's obvious they won't have a a rift like in the books. They might fall apart after Joffrey dies, but it would be nothing like in the books. I can't see Cersei being cruel to Jaime for instance, since she's not even cruel with the brother she supposedly hates.