Littlefinger hired a Faceless Man to kill Ned

[gwaha]

I have to disagree entirely with the OP.

Littlefinger thrives on chaos.

There is no need for anyone like Littlefinger, someone who is good with money, to hire an insanely expensive assassin. I think it is likely that LF has made sure to skim off a considerable amount of money from the Crown's income but I can't see him being that stupid to spend most of this on an FM to deal with someone who is already completely under control.

I also believe that the giant looming over Jamie and Sandor can only be Gregor and nobody else since others simply don't fit. A giant doesn't snarl, so it is not Tyrion. LF's true family sigil may be the Giant of Braavos but his character simply doesn't have much to do with Jamie and Sandor, whereas Gregor does and he is a giant of a man. The only person who has ever loomed over Sandor is his own brother.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I have to disagree entirely with the OP.

Littlefinger thrives on chaos.

There is no need for anyone like Littlefinger, someone who is good with money, to hire an insanely expensive assassin. I think it is likely that LF has made sure to skim off a considerable amount of money from the Crown's income but I can't see him being that stupid to spend most of this on an FM to deal with someone who is already completely under control.

I also believe that the giant looming over Jamie and Sandor can only be Gregor and nobody else since others simply don't fit. A giant doesn't snarl, so it is not Tyrion. LF's true family sigil may be the Giant of Braavos but his character simply doesn't have much to do with Jamie and Sandor, whereas Gregor does and he is a giant of a man. The only person who has ever loomed over Sandor is his own brother.

As events reached crescendo in KL I wouldn't say LF had things completely under control but I would allow that things were moving in directions that were very advantageous for LF and LF siezed every oppurtunity he saw. But I don't see how you can say he had everything under control before Jon was actually assassinated, which is when he would have decided to hire the FM if I'm right. You could argue that LF didn't care if Ned was actually killed or not. You could argue that he trusted in his own ability to scheme so much that he never considered hiring a FM. But I really don't think you can argue that LF had everything under control before anything had actually happened.

[DreamEater53]

Joffrey is a Faceless Man?! :stunned:

[Lost Melnibonean]

Then you don't understand the character. From the moment that he was denied Cat's hand and was sliced up by Brandon, he wanted the Tullys and the Starks destroyed, as well as the other highborn houses whose system kept him from the woman he was obsessed with. From the moment Ned married Cat, Littlefinger began plotting his death.

But I do understand the character--at least as well as you since I agree with this statement 100% except for the first sentence of course. Your summed up the character's motives very elegantly.

As you say LF hated Ned so much and for so long he was willing to pay, let's say 2/3 of the considerable fortune he had amassed to ensure that Ned would die and never return to WF.

[Lord_Tyrell]

As events reached crescendo in KL I wouldn't say LF had things completely under control but I would allow that things were moving in directions that were very advantageous for LF and LF siezed every oppurtunity he saw. But I don't see how you can say he had everything under control before Jon was actually assassinated, which is when he would have decided to hire the FM if I'm right. You could argue that LF didn't care if Ned was actually killed or not. You could argue that he trusted in his own ability to scheme so much that he never considered hiring a FM. But I really don't think you can argue that LF had everything under control before anything had actually happened.

Littlefinger was biding his time. Just because he wasn't doing much at the time doesn't mean he wasn't plotting. The time wasn't right to start the Lannister-Stark rivalry. He needed Ned in King's Landing and needed a reason to off Jon Arryn to get Ned suspicious, so Jon had to go snooping around first and make his death look suspicious. Then he just waited for Ned and continue to play the Lannisters, Starks, and Baratheons against each other until the country was engulfed by flames.

[Lord_Tyrell]

As you say LF hated Ned so much and for so long he was willing to pay, let's say 2/3 of the considerable fortune he had amassed to ensure that Ned would die and never return to WF.

There would be considerable evidence if Littlefinger lost most of his fortune hiring a Faceless Man. He didn't. He had Ned by the balls the entire time, and there was nothing Ned could do to take him by surprise. He had basically every move plotted, except for Dany getting pregnant and Ned leaving, and he quickly improvised on that to make sure he stayed.

And why Ned? Yeah, he hated Ned, but he easily disposed of him with almost no effort on his part. If there was one people he would send a Faceless Man against, it's Tyrion. A faceless man is only used as a last resort, never a first.

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[Lost Melnibonean]

The Lannisters didn't try to kill Bran (the knife incident at least). That was all Joffrey being a little shit.

"The things I do for love." So what was Jamie's intention when he shoved Bran out the window?

[thewingedwolf]

I think Littlefinger knew full well that he did not need a Faceless Man to see to the doom of Ned Stark. However untouchable the Starks were in the North (at least at the start of ASOIAF), when Ned came to the capital, he was vulnerable and entering LF's playground. Same for Jon Snow, now as far as assassinations are concerned, here are my thoughts (not all 100% text-proven but not all crackpot either):

1. Euron hired a Facelessman to kill Balon, paid for it most likely with the Dragon egg he claims he threw into the sea

2. Bowen Marsch was working for the Iron Throne when he stabbed Jon, presumably there was a deal made to reinforce the NW in exchange for this hence the "for the watch" as he stabbed him. The message would have been passed along when Bowen was talking to Janos Slynt in the tubs.

3. J'qen Hagar is The Alchemist who for some reason TBD is hanging out at the Citadel.

I also believe there are more than one "levels" of FM, for instance I think that guys like J'qen Hagar carry out a more secretive agenda than just assassinations for hire.

Thats my two cents on this . . . Feel free to debate.

On side note, good research by the OP, a solid post and good for debate as well.

[Lost Melnibonean]

... However untouchable the Starks were in the North (at least at the start of ASOIAF), when Ned came to the capital, he was vulnerable and entering LF's playground. ...

I agree but there was no guarantee LF would be able to have Ned killed with no risk to his own person or position. Hiring the FM was the surest and least risky way to kill Ned, knowing full well that Robert would replace Jon with his old trusted companion and bring him to LF's playground. (And thanks.)

[Lost Melnibonean]

I was wrong. As I continued working on this theory I discovered a partially translated interview with GRRM from a Spanish site suggesting that Syrio and the FM were exactly as they appeared with no detailed back stories. Apparently the two characters were nothing more than plot devices to advance the development of Arya. The interview was discussed on this forum in August 2012.

[Red Raven]

LF is clever and resourceful, he could cook up a thousand ways to get rid of Ned without bankrupting himself by hiring a Faceless Man. Plus, I seriously doubt he'd give up everything (or 2/3 of everything) he worked for years to get just to kill an already effectively neutralized enemy.

A faceless man is only used as a last resort, never a first.

Yup. They're to be used when you have no choice left, when you are so desperate that you are willing to sacrifice everything, including the life of a loved one or your own, just to get vengeance. Hiring a FM is not to be taken lightly and Petyr would never pay that kind of price.

[Lost Melnibonean]

LF is clever and resourceful, he could cook up a thousand ways to get rid of Ned without bankrupting himself by hiring a Faceless Man. Plus, I seriously doubt he'd give up everything (or 2/3 of everything) he worked for years to get just to kill an already effectively neutralized enemy.

Yup. They're to be used when you have no choice left, when you are so desperate that you are willing to sacrifice everything, including the life of a loved one or your own, just to get vengeance. Hiring a FM is not to be taken lightly and Petyr would never pay that kind of price.

Euron didn't seem to have so much economically...

[Tywin Manderly]

Euron didn't seem to have so much economically...

He had returned with a ship full of riches. It is also said that he paid the Faceless Men with a dragon egg.

[Lost Melnibonean]

He had returned with a ship full of riches. It is also said that he paid the Faceless Men with a dragon egg.

I meant to say Euron didn't seem to have suffered so much economically.

[Mithras]

I think he surely checked the prize for hiring a FM but I dont think he did that. I think LF gathered an enormous amount of wealth for himself while performing as the master of coin. The only pupose of that wealth is to open the way for him to become the king. He needs to bribe many lords. He needs to hire many sellswords. He is not a man to waste the hard work of so many years just to kill one single guy. He can do that by manipulation, which he did.

[joluoto2]

No, I'm pretty sure LF was secretely the one who convinced Joffrey to kill Ned. He wouldn't need a Faceless Man since he can manipulate the king. LF was prepared to use Ned as much as possible, and then discard of him and make a play for Cat when Ned became useless. Ned became useless when he wanted to make Stannis king. Thus LF decided to discard of him, in a way that allowed him to keep advancing, and then try to make a move on Cat (which never happens, since RW happened).

[Lost Melnibonean]

Can this...

I failed you, Robert, Ned thought. He could not say the words. I lied to you, hid the truth. I let them kill you.

The king heard him. "You stiff-necked fool," he muttered, "too proud to listen. Can you eat pride, Stark? Will honor shield your children?" Cracks ran down his face, fissures opening in the flesh, and he reached up and ripped the mask away. It was not Robert at all; it was Littlefinger, grinning, mocking him. When he opened his mouth to speak, his lies turned to pale grey moths and took wing.

...be related to this...

The third loomed over the other two, a giant in armor made of stone. Inside his visor was nothing but darkness and thick black blood.

...? We appesr to have The George showing us that LF's corruption and lies will lead to the Ned's death. LF may not have been at the Trident with Sandor and Jaime but his plot was moving forward at the time and he was presently lying to Catelyn.

Even if I'm wrong about the Faceless Man theory, does this moth imagery support the idea that LF is the giant armored in stone?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Is darkness black? Does this moment from the Whispering Wood foreshadow Robb's death at the Twins?

When Robb turned his head to look at her, she could see only black inside his visor.

If the answer to both questions is yes then the George symbolizes darkness and black with death, no?

[Jo498]

If Ned gets killed in a back alley, there will not follow a civil war as when Ned gets executed as a traitor.

Of course, Ned taking the black and going north would have been risky, because the North rallying to the Stark cause would probably not care at all about a vow to join the night's watch. (On the other hand the North joined Robb anyway and they were probably waging war much more agressive because of Ned's death than the Ned, the wise and honorable would have done himself. But there would be much easier possibilities to get rid of Ned before he reached the North, so I do not believe that anyone in KL hired a faceless man for Robert or Ned.

It is probably a plothole and the original purpose of Jaqen and how he ended up in the black cells will never be revealed.

[Lost Melnibonean]

If Ned gets killed in a back alley, there will not follow a civil war as when Ned gets executed as a traitor.

Of course, Ned taking the black and going north would have been risky, because the North rallying to the Stark cause would probably not care at all about a vow to join the night's watch. (On the other hand the North joined Robb anyway and they were probably waging war much more agressive because of Ned's death than the Ned, the wise and honorable would have done himself. But there would be much easier possibilities to get rid of Ned before he reached the North, so I do not believe that anyone in KL hired a faceless man for Robert or Ned.

It is probably a plothole and the original purpose of Jaqen and how he ended up in the black cells will never be revealed.

Allowing the Ned to live and take the Black could have averted war. Having him killed in the Black Cells or on his way to the Wall would have had the desired affect. Of course, Joffrey really, really helped out a lot.