Littlefinger hired a Faceless Man to kill Ned

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

No.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Then we have a nightengale--Petyr's sigil,

Petyr's sigil is the mockingbird, not the nightingale.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Petyr's sigil is the mockingbird, not the nightingale.

Oh duh! Ok, well they're both sing song birds... but I took that part out. Thanks.

[Hoppy Hour]

I don't think there was even time enough for LF to get in contact with the FM. Unless they had cell phones or e-mails.

[Lost Melnibonean]

@Hoppy Hour: The most likely timeline allowed for a six-month period between the death of Jon and the arrival of Lady Catelyn in Kings Landing. The secret message appeared to arrive in Winterfell right in the middle of that period. Perhaps Littlefinger traveled to the Eyrie sometime after Lysa fled. Perhaps that was when he convinced her to send the secret message. But his absence from court would have been noticed. Perhaps he let it be known he needed to tend to some affairs on the Fingers, or perhaps he let it be known that, as Master of Coin, he needed to travel to Braavos to meet with agents or principals of the Iron Bank and perhaps he actually did, stopping in Gulltown on the way and meeting secretly with Lady Lysa at the Eyrie to convince her to write the secret message. And perhaps he also met with the Kindly Man at the House of Black and White. He would have had a three-month window to travel by ship, perhaps the Titans Daughter, which he knows so well, to Gulltown, the Eyrie, and Braavos and back to Kings Landing.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

I think it's suspicious enough that LF knows how expensive hiring a Faceless Man is. I don't think that they send out a menu of death to every potential customer.

"Hello! We are the Faceless Men of Braavos!

Are you seeking for a deal on assassinations?

Look no further! We might be expensive, but we get the job done!"

And then you see a handy list of prices for hits.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think it's suspicious enough that LF knows how expensive hiring a Faceless Man is. I don't think that they send out a menu of death to every potential customer.

"Hello! We are the Faceless Men of Braavos!

Are you seeking for a deal on assassinations?

Look no further! We might be expensive, but we get the job done!"

And then you see a handy list of prices for hits.

There is an SSM in which the George suggested it was a simple matter of paying a price, but I thinkhe was just responding partially to a question. The tezt suggests to me that sacrifice and "prayer" are involved as well.

[sweetsunray]

LF inquired. FM weren't keen on the target and asked a ridiculous high price (aka you can get at least two sellsword armies for that price) they knew he'd say no to himself. So, LF didn't eventually hire them. He wanted to, but didn't. Because the price for a king + 2 more was an axe thrown at a burning cage.

[Lord Wraith]

There is an SSM in which the George suggested it was a simple matter of paying a price, but I thinkhe was just responding partially to a question. The tezt suggests to me that sacrifice and "prayer" are involved as well.

Then what would you argue that he sacrificed to kill Ned? Still think there are much easier and cheaper ways to kill Ned.

[Hoppy Hour]

@Hoppy Hour: The most likely timeline allowed for a six-month period between the death of Jon and the arrival of Lady Catelyn in Kings Landing. The secret message appeared to arrive in Winterfell right in the middle of that period. Perhaps Littlefinger traveled to the Eyrie sometime after Lysa fled. Perhaps that was when he convinced her to send the secret message. But his absence from court would have been noticed. Perhaps he let it be known he needed to tend to some affairs on the Fingers, or perhaps he let it be known that, as Master of Coin, he needed to travel to Braavos to meet with agents or principals of the Iron Bank and perhaps he actually did, stopping in Gulltown on the way and meeting secretly with Lady Lysa at the Eyrie to convince her to write the secret message. And perhaps he also met with the Kindly Man at the House of Black and White. He would have had a three-month window to travel by ship, perhaps the Titans Daughter, which he knows so well, to Gulltown, the Eyrie, and Braavos and back to Kings Landing.

I was considering only from the time Ned actually arrives in KL.

I see no reason for LF to think about hiring a FM before he even meets him in the city. Sure, LF was in love with Catelyn when he was a boy, but so much time passed that I doubt he would be willing to kill Ned with no real reason, and for an insane price (Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North).

Also, what was LF after if he hired a FM to kill Ned?

Ned knew nothing about the twincest. Catelyn and all their children were still in Winterfell, and she wasn't even supposed to travel south at all.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Then what would you argue that he sacrificed to kill Ned? Still think there are much easier and cheaper ways to kill Ned.

I think Petyr had become very wealthy through investment and graft. I suspect that one-third of his fortune was sufficient.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I was considering only from the time Ned actually arrives in KL.

I see no reason for LF to think about hiring a FM before he even meets him in the city. Sure, LF was in love with Catelyn when he was a boy, but so much time passed that I doubt he would be willing to kill Ned with no real reason, and for an insane price (Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North).

Also, what was LF after if he hired a FM to kill Ned?

Ned knew nothing about the twincest. Catelyn and all their children were still in Winterfell, and she wasn't even supposed to travel south at all.

I think Petyr had Lysa kill Jon because he calculated that Robert would name Eddard his new Hand. Eddard would then come to King's Landing where Petyr could have him killed. I don't think Petyr still loved Catelyn. I think he wanted vengeance on the man who took her from him.

[sweetsunray]

I think Petyr had become very wealthy through investment and graft. I suspect that one-third of his fortune was sufficient.

The kindly man and the waif said it was half her father's fortune to murder the waif's stepmother who had tried to poison her + the waif joining the House of B&W. And that stepmother was a piece of shit who tried to poison a child, because she came before her own children.

Meanwhile Jaqen would have killed 2 pieces of shit as well as King Joffrey if Arya had given Joffrey as the third name, and the price was an axe she threw at the burning cage he was trapped in at a momentarily risk of her own life.

Meanwhile the KM actually hints very much that the father of the ugly little girl (the abused girl, whose face Arya wears) was offed by the FM for free, since the Ugly Little Girl never prayed for it. Arya asks about it, but the KM evades to answer directly twice and finally says "The father died like all men do... just like the man who's going to die tomorrow (aka she will murder)" (paraphrasing here). So that was a murder the FM did for free.

And possibly Balon was murdered for the "price" of Euron dumping a dragon egg overboard to the bottom of the ocean, where it can never ever hatch into a dragon.

Where do you get this 1/3 idea? The FM alter the price depending on who's asking as well as who's to be killed

[Lost Melnibonean]

The kindly man and the waif said it was half her father's fortune to murder the waif's stepmother who had tried to poison her + the waif joining the House of B&W. And that stepmother was a piece of shit who tried to poison a child, because she came before her own children.

Meanwhile Jaqen would have killed 2 pieces of shit as well as King Joffrey if Arya had given Joffrey as the third name, and the price was an axe she threw at the burning cage he was trapped in at a momentarily risk of her own life.

Where do you get this 1/3 idea? The FM alter the price depending on who's asking as well as who's to be killed

I got the one-third idea from another poster a long time ago. But i can't recall his reasoning. All we know is that the Faceless Men will kill if the "prayer" and the price paid are sufficient. We know the monetary sacrifice increases with the prominence of the target, and that the monetary value of the price can be offset by some other sacrifice that is dear to the petitioner. I'm assuming that Petyr had enough to cover the cost in gold.

I don't think the Faceless Men make subjective judgements of their own as to who should or should not be killed.

[sweetsunray]

I got the one-third idea from another poster a long time ago. But i can't recall his reasoning. All we know is that the Faceless Men will kill if the "prayer" and the price paid are sufficient. We know the monetary sacrifice increases with the prominence of the target, and that the monetary value of the price can be offset by some other sacrifice that is dear to the petitioner. I'm assuming that Petyr had enough to cover the cost in gold.

I don't think the Faceless Men make subjective judgements of their own as to who should or should not be killed.

The chapters about the FM or mentioning of them ought to be read very much between the lines. It is best to question and compare, especially when they make statements of what's allowed or how they choose and such. It is said in a way to make people misinterprete it, especially since you're listening and reading through the eyes of a 10 year old acolyte.

The FM are not an actual assassin for hire organisation. It's a religion with priests and acolytes who carry out the work and wishes of their god, based on prayer. Their primary work and task is to help people with assisted suicide. The gift of mercy. The first FM gave the gift of mercy in death from suffering to slaves (miserable, downtrodden people) who pray for an ending.

The second work is to murder abusive masters whos end is prayed for. The first assassin committed by the first FM was one of the slave masters that a slave prayed for to be killed, for all he posessed. The FM "decided" that sounded exactly like what his god would like very much. In other words. That is subjective decision making and judgment right then and there. The KM says it's not for Arya to judge ("not for you to judge")... Arya's an acolyte, not a priest of the Many Faced God. Of course she's not supposed to judge and pick... she must perform the task. But priests are the ones who decide upon hearing the prayer whether it might please their god or not. The priests decide. In the case of the father of the Ugly Girl, the girl did not pray for it, but drank the poison to end her suffering. The father died like all men do... like the ship insurance man will die. That is what he says to Arya. Arya believes it means "the father died by an accident or illness or some other means, not assassination." But that's actually exactly what the KM says... the father died like the ship insurance man who dies by assassination. Those who save the faces of the dead to hang on the wall of faces can test the faces. The faces reveal what the reason was why the person wanted to commit suicide. They have the means and knowledge to organize a hit on a "slave master".

The third purpose of the FM is to rid the world of slave masters as the dragonlords of Old Valyria were. The FM were involved in the bringing about of the doom. This is heavily hinted at.

When the KM says the FM kill both good and bad people, it could just as well mean... we help the good people to kill themselves when they want to die, and we assassinate the bad people. And when you check who is killed by the FM per assassination and who is killed by the poisoned well, it is very obvious that the FM do not just murder anybody for the right price. The people we know were murdered by FM were abusive, conmen who ruined families to go live from begging on the streets, a king who wants to reinstall reaving ways, rapists, and Jaqen very much desired Arya to name Joffrey (a monstrous king).

Now, the FM do not want outsiders to know that the FM-priests can in fact choose who's a target for a hit and who isn't, which target would please their god, and which wouldn't. They use a mask - that they kill anyone for the right price. And the FM themselves set the price... and that price varies. Jaqen would have killed 3 (including a king) for any of the shits that were part of Arya's prayers (he knows that the names on her list are big pieces of shit) for an axe thrown... She's not even required to become a FM. She goes of her own volition. It wasn't part of the price. A lure, yes, Price, no.

So, in order to maintain the mask of "best assassins in the world for any name for the price we demand," they vary the price depending on the target. If the target is someone the priests think ('nah, won't please the god') they will not say 'no' outright. Instead they will ask such a high price, that the requester will say, 'forget about that. I'm not paying that.' And that is exactly what imo happened with LF. It is very possible that he requested a hit on Ned Stark (and Ned Stark as we know punished lords who tried to enslave people). The FM priests say, "Many Faced God won't be pleased about that. Who the hell is this guy? Oh, some creep who basically enslaves girls into brothels and wishes to kill the husband for some imagined narcissistic slight?" They know that his main interest is money. So, they say, "Ok, we'll do it, if you pay a price you can buy two sellsword armies for." And LF thinks shocked, "Hell, no!" Instead LF buys himself an army of sellswords (he has an army of sellswords, doesn't he).

The very fact that LF cries and fears what a princess may cost to the realm, shows LF "knows nothing" since king Joffrey + 2 more would have been who Jaqen would have killed for the price of an axe thrown if Arya had named him.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The chapters about the FM or mentioning of them ought to be read very much between the lines. It is best to question and compare, especially when they make statements of what's allowed or how they choose and such. It is said in a way to make people misinterprete it, especially since you're listening and reading through the eyes of a 10 year old acolyte.

The FM are not an actual assassin for hire organisation. It's a religion with priests and acolytes who carry out the work and wishes of their god, based on prayer. Their primary work and task is to help people with assisted suicide. The gift of mercy. The first FM gave the gift of mercy in death from suffering to slaves (miserable, downtrodden people) who pray for an ending.

The second work is to murder abusive masters whos end is prayed for. The first assassin committed by the first FM was one of the slave masters that a slave prayed for to be killed, for all he posessed. The FM "decided" that sounded exactly like what his god would like very much. In other words. That is subjective decision making and judgment right then and there. The KM says it's not for Arya to judge ("not for you to judge")... Arya's an acolyte, not a priest of the Many Faced God. Of course she's not supposed to judge and pick... she must perform the task. But priests are the ones who decide upon hearing the prayer whether it might please their god or not. The priests decide. In the case of the father of the Ugly Girl, the girl did not pray for it, but drank the poison to end her suffering. The father died like all men do... like the ship insurance man will die. That is what he says to Arya. Arya believes it means "the father died by an accident or illness or some other means, not assassination." But that's actually exactly what the KM says... the father died like the ship insurance man who dies by assassination. Those who save the faces of the dead to hang on the wall of faces can test the faces. The faces reveal what the reason was why the person wanted to commit suicide. They have the means and knowledge to organize a hit on a "slave master".

The third purpose of the FM is to rid the world of slave masters as the dragonlords of Old Valyria were. The FM were involved in the bringing about of the doom. This is heavily hinted at.

When the KM says the FM kill both good and bad people, it could just as well mean... we help the good people to kill themselves when they want to die, and we assassinate the bad people. And when you check who is killed by the FM per assassination and who is killed by the poisoned well, it is very obvious that the FM do not just murder anybody for the right price. The people we know were murdered by FM were abusive, conmen who ruined families to go live from begging on the streets, a king who wants to reinstall reaving ways, rapists, and Jaqen very much desired Arya to name Joffrey (a monstrous king).

Now, the FM do not want outsiders to know that the FM-priests can in fact choose who's a target for a hit and who isn't, which target would please their god, and which wouldn't. They use a mask - that they kill anyone for the right price. And the FM themselves set the price... and that price varies. Jaqen would have killed 3 (including a king) for any of the shits that were part of Arya's prayers (he knows that the names on her list are big pieces of shit) for an axe thrown... She's not even required to become a FM. She goes of her own volition. It wasn't part of the price. A lure, yes, Price, no.

So, in order to maintain the mask of "best assassins in the world for any name for the price we demand," they vary the price depending on the target. If the target is someone the priests think ('nah, won't please the god') they will not say 'no' outright. Instead they will ask such a high price, that the requester will say, 'forget about that. I'm not paying that.' And that is exactly what imo happened with LF. It is very possible that he requested a hit on Ned Stark (and Ned Stark as we know punished lords who tried to enslave people). The FM priests say, "Many Faced God won't be pleased about that. Who the hell is this guy? Oh, some creep who basically enslaves girls into brothels and wishes to kill the husband for some imagined narcissistic slight?" They know that his main interest is money. So, they say, "Ok, we'll do it, if you pay a price you can buy two sellsword armies for." And LF thinks shocked, "Hell, no!" Instead LF buys himself an army of sellswords (he has an army of sellswords, doesn't he).

The very fact that LF cries and fears what a princess may cost to the realm, shows LF "knows nothing" since king Joffrey + 2 more would have been who Jaqen would have killed for the price of an axe thrown if Arya had named him.

The Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt to the Red God would have taken his own life or anyone else's life. If Arya had said Septon Meribald, Dog woulda had to find a new companion with whom to spread good works to the smallfolk of Riverlands.

[Clegane'sPup]

The Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt to the Red God would have taken his own life or anyone else's life. If Arya had said Septon Meribald, Dog woulda had to find a new companion with whom to spread good works to the smallfolk of Riverlands.

I don’t think LF hired a FM to kill Eddard. LF was master of coin which leads me to suspect that he had connections in Braavos, including the Iron Bank. If LF did hire a FM he made a big monetary mistake especially since LF did some whispering (supposedly) into Joff’s ear about the beheading of Eddard and that bit of whispering cost LF zero.

Rorge and Biter and Jaqen were taken from the dungeons in KL. They set out for the Wall with Yoren. Yoren's group meet with troubles and trials. Arya tosses an axe into the cage. Then Rorge, Biter & Jaqen turn up in Harrenhall where Arya is. I know from Arya that when Jaqen leaves her with the coin and words and then says goodbye he merely runs his hand over his face and it changes. He also left Rorge and Biter behind. That person with the new face ends up in Oldtown. Why I do not know.

Jaqen passed a hand down his face from forehead to chin, and where it went he changed. His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer, his nose hooked; a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.

“Jaqen is as dead as Arry,” he said sadly, “and I have promises to keep.”Valar morghulis, Arya Stark. Say it again.

Yes, Jaqen would have killed any three people Arya named. If Jaqen belongs to the House of Black and White, they acknowledge all the gods not just the red god. If the FM belong to the HoBaW it seems to me that there is a code of ethics that they live and die by.

“Swear it,” Arya said. “Swear it by the gods.”

“By all the gods of sea and air, and even him of fire, I swear it.” He placed a hand in the mouth of the weirwood. “By the seven new gods and the old gods beyond count, I swear it.”

“He has sworn.” “Even if I named the king…”

“Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and one day a man is there and a king dies.”

LF didn’t hire a FM to kill Eddard. Sure he may have wanted Eddard dead but I don’t see LF wasting his time, money or energy to hire a FM. I see LF as an opportunist. I do think that LF has a long standing resentment against Tulley’s and Starks.

[sweetsunray]

The Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt to the Red God would have taken his own life or anyone else's life. If Arya had said Septon Meribald, Dog woulda had to find a new companion with whom to spread good works to the smallfolk of Riverlands.

But Jaqen already knew her prayers before he made her the offer of the 3 names. He had been watching her on King's Road already. He knew about her list and what kind of people were on it. And he knew who she was. Hence, he knew that whatever 3 names she would have given, it wouldn't have been a man like Septon Meribold. 2 times he repeats the name Joffrey to her. He knows that name is high on her list, and one with the most power too.

The red god is what he uses as one of the Many Faces, since he was saved from the fire, and red god is the god of fire.

[Clegane'sPup]

But Jaqen already knew her prayers before he made her the offer of the 3 names. He had been watching her on King's Road already. He knew about her list and what kind of people were on it. And he knew who she was. Hence, he knew that whatever 3 names she would have given, it wouldn't have been a man like Septon Meribold. 2 times he repeats the name Joffrey to her. He knows that name is high on her list, and one with the most power too.

The red god is what he uses as one of the Many Faces, since he was saved from the fire, and red god is the god of fire.

It has been a while since I re-read ACOK. I seem to remember that Yoren was deterrmined to keep her silent about who she was. Did Arya sleep beside the wagon that housed the convicts? Is that how Jaqen knew her prayers? Did Jaqen, this man who changes faces with the wave of a hand accidently overhear conversation between Yoren & Arya? When Arya spills the beans to Gendry were they near the wagon? I am asking because I do not remember.

Jaqen is a persona. Not real, no one. What face or identity he had before he landed in the cells is a mystery. He definately knows her as Lady Arya of House Stark, and he turns up later in the prologue of AFFC trying to worm his way into the Citadel.

[The Fresh PtwP]

After Catnapping, Ned was pretty much on borrowed time. Jaime almost cut him down the moment he heard.

I mean granted LF wasn't about to let him live but there are much cheaper ways to have Ned killed.