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UK Politics: Backbenchers to the front!

Galactus

By Galactus,
in General Chatter

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General Goose Freerider

General Goose

Posted
Posted

16,21 and 23 don't seem like bad ideas.

I disagree. I'll try and elaborate on 16 and 21 later, but I oppose 23 for a few reasons. Firstly, I think it's a bad idea to overuse referendums, especially when it comes to minor issues like marriage law that lack constitutional implications or represent a major change to how our democracy functions. Even if polling shows the public say they want a referendum, there rarely is an actual demand, and the overuse of referendums leads to political apathy and voter fatigue. Too many elections as a whole does that; remember the atrocious turnout of the police commissioner elections? America avoids this by having most referendums take place alongside standard elections, but even they see massive drop-offs in turnout in mid-year and off-year elections.

Secondly, overuse undermines the idea of a representative democracy. I oppose the use of referendums except in cases of major constitutional or democratic implications, as I've said, and by and large I think MPs should be left to pass laws and govern the country, especially with issues that can theoretically be changed by the next government easily. Controversy over coalitions and the electoral system aside, our system has given the coalition a mandate to govern. Referendums confuse that mandate. If a majority of MPs support gay marriage, things are simple. But what if a referendum is held, and turnout is low, or unrepresentative of the public at large? Say 55% of the UK supports gay marriage, 45% opposes (it's way more lopsided than that in real life, of course). If the "no" side gets a higher turnout, they win the vote and thus the issue, even though a substantial majority disagrees with their view. Referendums are clogged with these issues of legitimacy.

Thirdly, and this is an argument that only resonates with gay marriage supporters such as myself who view marriage equality as a human right, but I am uncomfortable with the idea of a right as fundamental as marriage being put to a public vote and potentially subjected to a tyranny of the majority. To paraphrase a guy whose name I can't remember, "Only two people voted on my marriage, and it passed with unanimous consent."

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Darth Visenya Council Member

Darth Visenya

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Personally I don't feel a Referendum is an ideal choice on the subject but feel very strongly about gay marriage being allowed, I don't disagree with what you're saying really, I just want it to go through by whatever means if that makes sense.

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General Goose Freerider

General Goose

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Personally I don't feel a Referendum is an ideal choice on the subject but feel very strongly about gay marriage being allowed, I don't disagree with what you're saying really, I just want it to go through by whatever means if that makes sense.

True, although it looks set to pass now. The reason the Tory MPs want a referendum is that is their only chance to defeat gay marriage - it's the same reason they want a referendum on Europe, because they see it as a means to an end. If we were in certain US states, I'd support a referendum as the best possible way to get it legalised, but in Britain, it'd only threaten its chances.

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williamjm Council Member

williamjm

Posted
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The thing I love most about British politics is the near-complete u-turn. Under Thatcher, (and I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who wasn't alive back then, so I'm not speaking from personal experience here) it seemed that it was the left that was constantly divided. The multitude of spoiler parties tended to be varying degrees to the left of the Tories. Labour backbenchers caused more headaches than their Tory counterparts (Thatcher's downfall aside.) Now, the tables have turned.

I'm not sure John Major would have agreed with the suggestion that Tory backbenchers couldn't cause plenty of headaches for the PM of the day.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Alex. Council Member

Alex.

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And, indeed, frontbenchers to the back. Tom Watson has resigned from the Shadow Cabinet which is a shame. He was always more entertaining sitting in the back anyway.

Bit of text from his resignation letter:

I said that I’d stay with you as general election co-ordinator within the Shadow Cabinet as long as I was useful. I think it would be a good idea for you, and me, if I stood down from the role now.

As you know, I offered my resignation on Tuesday and you asked me to reconsider. I’ve thought about it and still feel it is better for you and the future unity of the party that I go now. There are some who have not forgiven me for resigning in 2006. I fully accept the consequences of that decision and genuinely hope my departure allows the party to move on.

Yet it’s not the unattributed shadow cabinet briefings around the mess in Falkirk that has convinced me that the arrangement has run its course (though they don’t help). I believe that the report should be published – in full – and the whole truth told as soon as possible so that the record can be made clear. I’ve still not seen the report but believe there are an awful lot of spurious suppositions being written.

I wish to use the backbenches to speak out in areas of personal interest: open government and the surveillance state, the digital economy, drones and the future of conflict, the child abuse inquiries, the aftermath of the Murdoch scandal and grass roots responses to austerity.

Having resigned a couple of times before, I know how puckish lobby hacks might choose to misconstrue the departure. So to make it harder for them let me say this: I’m proud of your Buddha-like qualities of patience, deep thought, compassion and resolve. I remain your loyal servant. I’ll always be on hand to help you if you need me. I just don’t think you need me in the Shadow Cabinet any more. After nearly thirty years of this, I feel like I’ve seen the merry-go-round turn too many times. Whereas the Shadow Cabinet’s for people who still want to get dizzy.

You have it in you to be an outstanding Labour Prime Minister. The road ahead is always rocky but I will be with you all of the way, cheering you on from the backbenches. You’re my friend and leader, and I’m going to do all I can to make sure you win in 2015.

Good lad.

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Theda Baratheon Council Member

Theda Baratheon

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Margaret Thatcher Day strikes me as a sort of parody of Christmas. Instead of a cheerful gent in red running around handing out presents, you have a sour woman in blue running around handing out redundancy notices.

and stealing children's milk

lol

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Usotsuki Council Member

Usotsuki

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I did like the "stupendous weather" explanation.

That during a heated debate featuring strong implications of institutional and personal corruption noted heterosexual William Hague attempted to change the topic to a discussion of the glorious summer skies rather than indulging in a cheap jibe at a colleague is a remarkable tribute to his equable temperament.

It's a compelling story, ranking with "bad boys did it then ran away" and "the vodka probably just evaporated whilst you were on holiday"

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Werthead Council Member

Werthead

Posted
Posted

The general public wrong about nearly everything:

http://www.independe...ws-8697821.html

Strong headline that. Good work.

Edit: Having thought about it, I should emphasise that that is a real paper headline, not a Daily Mash one.

I'm startled that people really think that benefit payments are larger than pensions. A few seconds of logic should sort that out (100% of the population over 67 getting some form of pension, most of them public, versus 8% of the working population being out of work) and the news occasionally mentions the looming pension catastrophe when the baby boomers start retiring in droves, which will likely cause the complete and total meltdown of the public sector finances. Or maybe not, but that's certainly how it's being presented, an impending crisis that dwarfs any current concerns over benefit fraud (which at about 0.7% is even less of a problem than I think most people thought: I always thought it was about 5%). That's going to be a fun time.

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Alex. Council Member

Alex.

Posted
Posted

Tories to rebrand themselves as party of the North and the poor... Haha, good luck with that you absolute whoppers.

A drive to shed the Conservatives’ image as the “party of the rich” will be launched by Tory MPs next week as they try to reposition the party as a champion of the low paid.

The campaign will target working class and ethnic minority voters outside the Tories’ South East heartlands as part of the party’s effort to win crucial marginal seats in the North and Midlands. It will need to do so to win an overall majority at the 2015 election.

The Tory MPs have linked up with think-tank experts to draw up ideas for the party’s manifesto designed to show it is on the side of ordinary people by putting the cost of living and jobs at the top of its agenda.

Proposals include softening the Tories’ “harsh” and “uncaring” image in the north, by giving local authorities the power to reduce the benefit sanctions faced by the unemployed, so councils could take account of local job losses. Benefit rates would still be set nationally.

Some Tory MPs are privately worried about David Cameron and George Osborne’s label as “two posh boys” and rhetoric from ministers dividing people into “scroungers and strivers”. However, organisers of the campaign believe the party’s “branding problem” in the North is mainly a legacy from the huge job losses during the Thatcher Government.

R.e. the bolded part: No, really? Well fuck me.

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