Is there a God in the Song of Ice and Fire universe?

[Jaenerys_snargaryen]

So we know the first men and children of the

forest worshipped the old seven and the newer men of Westeros worship the new gods.

There are the those who follow the lord of light and religion of R'hllor.

Then of course there are the iron men who worship the drowned god.

Which do you like the most? Which do you believe is the true god of that universe?

Or is it all just magic being mistaken for gods?

[Mladen]

Oh my... Just when I think I have won...

There is no one true god in ASOIAF universe... I`ll leave it there...

ETA: This is like fighting cancer... Just when you think you`re cancer-free, another thread pops up :)

[The Great Walrus]

Oh my... Just when I think I have won...

There is no one true god in ASOIAF universe... I`ll leave it there...

ETA: This is like fighting cancer... Just when you think you`re cancer-free, another thread pops up :)

Good, when i saw you replied i was worrying for this poor man's soul...

[King of Winters]

I like The Old Gods best.

I don't think any gods exist at all. I think the power of any of the gods we see is just magic. Magic that people don't yet understand or see as normal magic. They see something they can't explain and then say it must be the work of a god(s). We know that the Old Gods are basically Greenseers that work through the Weirwoods and use Ice magic, as it's up in The North where it's cold, and R'hllor is probably just Fire magic. So I don't think there is a true god in ASOIAF but it's all just magic.

Mladen is already here :)

[Leif]

Personally, I really like the concept of the Old Gods. The whole thing surrounding them, the wargs, greenseers, CoTF, and weirwoods is really interesting to me. And every woods witch we meet plays a nice role in the story.

As for the second part of your question, I don't think there's one true diety - but the Lord of Light and the Old Gods seem to have the most power.

[Mladen]

Good, when i saw you replied i was worrying for this poor man's soul...

I am a gentle soul that hates one true relligion... :)

Mladen is already here :)

Winter may come and go, but my despise towards One true God idea will never go

I don`t mind people liking one religion over another, but to say there is only one deity and others are wrong, is just wrong. it doesn`t work that way.

[RhaenysBee]

I have never really been a religious person, but maybe I could do with the old gods...

[Hodor knows]

So we know the first men and children of the

forest worshipped the old seven and the newer men of Westeros worship the new gods.

There are the those who follow the lord of light and religion of R'hllor.

Then of course there are the iron men who worship the drowned god.

Which do you like the most? Which do you believe is the true god of that universe?

I like the Old Gods. I think they would be a good fit for me.

The Song of Ice and Fire universe is very much like Earth in the sense that there are many Gods to choose from. I think that's a good thing.

[Bridgeburners]

I think GRRM leaves it deliberately ambiguous for us readers. Now whether or not he has a check-list at home, on which he says "these ones are real, these ones aren't" is another question entirely (but I doubt it).

He gives examples of people treating phenomena like they're magic, and must be the deed of a god, where in some cases, they are definitely, or possibly magic, and we have no idea how they happen. Then there are (IMO) other scenarios where people are attributing the divine to something that is clearly not magic at all. (For example, Aeron shows us his ritual of drowning boys to unconsciousness and then using mouth to mouth resuscitation to draw the water out of their lungs, and he believes from his own PoV that the kids are dying, and he's reviving them through the power of the Drowned God.)

In my opinion, there is nothing in the series convincing enough to tell us that there are gods. I mean, it's not like other fantasy series' where gods literally come down and talk to people and show off their powers. We do have some supernatural displays in aSoIaF, and we don't know how it works, but I don't think that means we can assume that there are gods.

As for the old gods, it seems to me like DwD has already demonstrated that they are simply people with greenseer powers that are mistaken for something that's more than that.

[King of Winters]

Winter may come and go, but my despise towards One true God idea will never go

I think the tag line for any "one true god" topic should just be Mladen is Coming.

[profilebegone]

ETA: This is like fighting cancer... Just when you think you`re cancer-free, another thread pops up :)

"Bizarre and baseless speculation over theology is a cancer in this fair message board. It is the cancer, and I am the, um... what cures cancer?"

[Breastplate Stretcha]

None of them are real, and the Old Gods aren't even gods. What kind of god loses power when you chop down a freakin' tree? :dunno:

[Mladen]

"Bizarre and baseless speculation over theology is a cancer in this fair message board. It is the cancer, and I am the, um... what cures cancer?"

Citostatics, chemotherapy, surgery :)

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Citostatics, chemotherapy, surgery :)

Faith.

:leaving:

[Mladen]

Faith.

:leaving:

Actually, that's what makes pediatric oncology so miraculuous. The fact that kids believe in recovery and somehow sometimes they manage to survive it...

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

It is unlikely that any of the gods genuinely exist. It's possible, this is fantasy after all, but it's unlikely. The closest thing to an existing deity is the Old Gods. The Old Gods exist, but they are no true gods, just powerful omniscient sorcerers.

[jons nissa]

I think GRRM leaves it deliberately ambiguous for us readers. Now whether or not he has a check-list at home, on which he says "these ones are real, these ones aren't" is another question entirely (but I doubt it).

He gives examples of people treating phenomena like they're magic, and must be the deed of a god, where in some cases, they are definitely, or possibly magic, and we have no idea how they happen. Then there are (IMO) other scenarios where people are attributing the divine to something that is clearly not magic at all. (For example, Aeron shows us his ritual of drowning boys to unconsciousness and then using mouth to mouth resuscitation to draw the water out of their lungs, and he believes from his own PoV that the kids are dying, and he's reviving them through the power of the Drowned God.)

In my opinion, there is nothing in the series convincing enough to tell us that there are gods. I mean, it's not like other fantasy series' where gods literally come down and talk to people and show off their powers. We do have some supernatural displays in aSoIaF, and we don't know how it works, but I don't think that means we can assume that there are gods.

As for the old gods, it seems to me like DwD has already demonstrated that they are simply people with greenseer powers that are mistaken for something that's more than that.

i agree with most of this but r'hollor has definitely shown "magical power" and while we don't know enough about the great other, since that is the main foible for the lord of light, i image to be shown some impressive things in the next two books. i expect that because i don't think grrm means to insinuate that there is one true god.

i also think it's safe to assume the seven and the septon will never show "magical power" as grrm has said he's no longer a practicing catholic but i'm very sure we'll see them wield human "power" and the catholic church and vatican are known to do.

as for the drowned god, while we can say that breathing life into a drowned man is just mouth to mouth resuscitation, that doesn't explain the prophecies that patchface sings all day.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

i agree with most of this but r'hollor has definitely shown "magical power"

[...]

i also think it's safe to assume the seven and the septon will never show "magical power"

R'hllor has shown no more magical power than the Seven have. Good things happen, and the Red Priests take credit for it. Just as good things happen and the Faith takes credit for it. The Red Priests have the advantage that they have sorcerers in their ranks who can dazzle the masses a bit better than just a priest pestering his gods into granting magic boons of limited tangibility, but we have seen magic users with vastly different ideologies & religions, so I don't think that's any indication.

[Dr. Pepper]

The Red Priests have the advantage that they have sorcerers in their ranks who can dazzle the masses a bit better than just a priest pestering his gods into granting magic boons of limited tangibility, but we have seen magic users with vastly different ideologies & religions, so I don't think that's any indication.

That and the Red Priests seem to have a better understanding of chemistry.

[Leif]

R'hllor has shown no more magical power than the seven have. Good things happen, and the Red Priests take credit for it. Just as good things happen and the Faith takes credit for it. The Red Priests have the advantage that they have sorcerers in their ranks who can dazzle the masses a bit better than just a priest pestering his gods into granting magic boons of limited tangibility, but we have seen magic users with vastly different ideologies & religions, so I don't think that's any indication.

So Thoros is the greatest wizard since Gandalf, and he doesn't even know it? And some of that magic rubbed off on Beric?