Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 A man is filming the police from at least 100 feet away. The police demand that he stop filming. He does so. He tells the police that their demand is a violation of his civil rights, they immediately arrest him without cause. They then proceed to shoot his dog in front of him. Absolutely unacceptable but what can we do? Shoot back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionhead Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 You can always lock the dog away in a secure area so it does not attack the Police, leading to it getting shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 The dog did not attack the police. The dog was put away while the owner spoke to them. Had the officers not illegally arrested the man nothing would have happened. Had the officer's uncuffed him to allow him to calm his dog nothing would have happened. Even then, nothing in the dog's body language was threatening. This is on the police 100%. There should be charges filed. There will not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionhead Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Ok am a Brit so not sure how far the cops can go exactly but from my viewpoint they were harsh to arrest the guy rather than taking the 'leave now or i will have you arrested for obstructing an investigation (or whatever)' route. But the pictures do show the dog go for the cop. The cop has to defend himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 That was fucked up. The dog wasn't attacking or even being aggressive. That cop should be charged ASAP.Not to mention that the dog owner wasn't doing anything wrong.That made me sick to my stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I don't even want to look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 In terms of arresting him - don't portray like he's innocent here, he was clearly antagonising them and didn't stop when told (notice that the other guy recording wasn't hassled at all), and it was already obviously a situation with tension in it.Shooting the dog, though, was clearly very badly handled since it wasn't aggressive at all and all the more tragic for him since in that one aspect he had acted sensibly, getting it out the way and going over to take his arrest calmly once they'd actually taken that step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 In terms of arresting him - don't portray like he's innocent here, he was clearly antagonising them and didn't stop when told (notice that the other guy recording wasn't hassled at all), and it was already obviously a situation with tension in it.What is antagonizing? Standing 100 feet away and pointing his phone? Beyond that, yelling at the police is not a crime. He did stop when told anyway. He put away his camera and locked up his dog. Obviously the situation did not have tension in it, what with the cops just standing there and numerous onlookers calmly discussing the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 That guy was way down the street from the police activity. No way they could say he was obstructing them in any way by standing several houses down and filming. I feel pretty crappy for the dog. I wonder if it died. The video isn't long enough but the cop didn't seem in a hurry to put it out of its misery so I wonder if they took it somewhere for treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 What is antagonizing? Standing 100 feet away and pointing his phone? Beyond that, yelling at the police is not a crime. He did stop when told anyway. He put away his camera and locked up his dog. Obviously the situation did not have tension in it, what with the cops just standing there and numerous onlookers calmly discussing the situation.I don't know how you can construe shouting "why don't you have any black cops" at the police as anything other than antagonistic, on top of his whole body language and general attitude. Again, notice how the other guy recording didn't get any police attention whatsoever. There's obviously a reason why everyone else is stood on the other side of the street and even if he isn't obstructing anything right then and there, they could easily feel that if something were to happen he's within the space where he would be distracting, and thus obstructing.That the onlookers were calm hardly indicates that the situation had no tension. Those cops in particular weren't doing anything at that moment, no, but one doesn't bring that many officers and cars down just for shits and giggles, the very nature of the situation precludes some tension, and their body language shows it.I don't really see the abuse here. A tragic mistake that clearly shouldn't have happened, yeah, but they didn't shoot the dog for the power kick or anything.Also: that was never 100 feet away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 In terms of arresting him - don't portray like he's innocent here, he was clearly antagonising them and didn't stop when told (notice that the other guy recording wasn't hassled at all), and it was already obviously a situation with tension in it.Shooting the dog, though, was clearly very badly handled since it wasn't aggressive at all and all the more tragic for him since in that one aspect he had acted sensibly, getting it out the way and going over to take his arrest calmly once they'd actually taken that step.What crime did this guy commit again? Using his camera phone on a public street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 How many times do I have to point out that if it was using a camera he was being arrested for, the guy posting the video would have gone as well? Presumably interfering with police business or however you'd frame it was going to be the charge. Or maybe they wouldn't have charged him at all but wanted to get him out of the way and weren't sure he was going to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 I don't know how you can construe shouting "why don't you have any black cops" at the police as anything other than antagonistic, on top of his whole body language and general attitude. Again, notice how the other guy recording didn't get any police attention whatsoever. There's obviously a reason why everyone else is stood on the other side of the street and even if he isn't obstructing anything right then and there, they could easily feel that if something were to happen he's within the space where he would be distracting, and thus obstructing.That the onlookers were calm hardly indicates that the situation had no tension. Those cops in particular weren't doing anything at that moment, no, but one doesn't bring that many officers and cars down just for shits and giggles, the very nature of the situation precludes some tension, and their body language shows it.I don't really see the abuse here. A tragic mistake that clearly shouldn't have happened, yeah, but they didn't shoot the dog for the power kick or anything.Also: that was never 100 feet away.Shouting "Why don't you have black cops" is not a crime. Nothing in the video indicates that there is any danger to the situation. When I lived in Mesa, AZ, it was normal for that many cops to respond to the most routine of calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 How many times do I have to point out that if it was using a camera he was being arrested for, the guy posting the video would have gone as well? Presumably interfering with police business or however you'd frame it was going to be the charge. Or maybe they wouldn't have charged him at all but wanted to get him out of the way and weren't sure he was going to.Get him out of the way? He was half a block away from them. I think the guy was stupid to just turn around and wait for the cuffs, but I can understand why a black guy getting approached by two white cops might do that (self preservation). Even if there was some bullshit crime you could try to throw at him, it still doesn't justify shooting his dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 How many times do I have to point out that if it was using a camera he was being arrested for, the guy posting the video would have gone as well? Presumably interfering with police business or however you'd frame it was going to be the charge. Or maybe they wouldn't have charged him at all but wanted to get him out of the way and weren't sure he was going to.Yeah...you don't get to do that. You can't arrest someone because they bother you or you want them to go away. That's called false arrest and it actually IS a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 PG,How is yelling "Why don't you have any black cops?" something that gives rise to a valid reason for arrest? These cops should be charged with false arrest and animal cruelty. They're likely to get paid leave until the allegations against them are ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Yeah...you don't get to do that. You can't arrest someone because they bother you or you want them to go away. That's called false arrest and it actually IS a crime.Yeah, and I'm not suggesting that they did that (again, how many fucking times, there was a crowd across the street, they weren't just arresting him for being there). They obviously felt he was getting in the way and refusing to get out of it, and that this was going to be a problem.The thing is we don't know what was going on. It might have been that they were entirely wrong to be arresting him and there was no need for it whatsoever, but what if something had happened while he was where he wasn't supposed to be and he got himself or someone else hurt? I don't know what the laws are over there exactly but police have to be able to get someone out of the way of a situation they feel could potentially get problematic and would be moreso with them there, else their whole job turns into a lucky dip.Get him out of the way? He was half a block away from them.The precise spot those two were standing is obviously not the limit of the operation, is it. He was walking up and down in an area you can clearly see they've intentionally cleared of bystanders.it still doesn't justify shooting his dog.Good job I didn't fucking say it did then, isn't it? You're trying to make two issues into one issue.Shouting "Why don't you have black cops" is not a crime.There are many things that of themselves are not a crime that can become one if you do them in the wrong place. At its very best, shouting that in that moment was a fucking imbecilic thing to do and I'd have no sympathy for the man if it wasn't for the dog then getting shot, which was obviously not their intent when they cuffed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I have several thoughts.1. Fucktards that think it is fun to taunt the police are better targets than dogs.2. The cops in this case are a bunch of pussies if they think there was any cause to arrest the guy.3. Whoever shot the dog is welcome to a slow, painful, terminal illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Flashheart Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I have one two thought's on this matter.1. 2. The cop that shot the dog is a scumbag, his life being in danger is pretty suspect. The dog didn't look to agressive. Worse than shooting the dog thou, he let it suffer in pain rather than actually putting the animal down like you would if a dog became vicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Good job I didn't fucking say it did then, isn't it? You're trying to make two issues into one issue.I didn't mean to imply that you thought shooting the dog was justified. But to me it (this entire scenario) is one issue - the police decide to arrest some guy (who is probably being an idiot) without any real reason to arrest him, and because of that, they get into a situation where they shoot his dog for no good reason. With power comes responsibility, and these cops didn't show much responsibility in using their power here. If they just did their job without trying to strong arm the guy with the camera, none of this would have happened. Just because you're annoying doesn't mean that you're breaking a law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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