How will the TV Audience feel about Tyrion? (Book 3 Spoiler)

[House Lunny]

I think it will happen.

+1

Given the lack of a chain of the hand in the show, tyrion giving shae a rather large necklace towards the end of season 3 made up my mind that its going to happen.

[somechords]

Nope I think Shae will testify against Tyrion, perhaps she will believe that he was conspiring against Joffrey? Or she'll be threatened/manipulated by Cersei - To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if she was working for Cersei and Tywin all along as in the books, it'll just be a bigger surprise when she testifies against Tyrion.

But to answer your question, no, Tyrion is a fan favorite and people will be calling for Shae's death when/if she betrays him.

[Daske]

I think they will do it. But I hope that for whatever the specific reasons that it will be a misundersanding - a fit of rage where he think as she has betrayed him, then he immediatey regrets it - 'WTF have I done' and then his journey begins with him loathing himself for doing it. And not wanting to live because he basically killed his one chance of happiness.

They need to be very careful. If it's straight up revenge killing then that is not the Tyrion we have come to know. It would be foolish for them to portray Tyrion as just another nasty Lannister at that moment when it's been clear for three seasons that he isn't.

Imo in the show they made the right choice to postpone Arya's coin/kill to the right moment so that we can understand why she goes over the edge and descent to a darker place. We retain sympathy for her even though we see first hand that she is a cold-blooded murderer. Much more believeable than in the books. They need to retain a similar sensible approach with Tyrion.

Specific actions by some 'good' characters at the end of Deadwood really left a bad taste and put off many fans. If it had continued it would have been very difficult for many viewers to empathise with those characters again. We'll never know, but it was a very poor judgement imo. They need to handle Tyrion carefully or risk the same alienation - murdering your lover for (almost) whatever reason is not a 'grey' act. It's fifteen-to-life.

[Dolorous Ned]

At this point I seriously doubt they'll include Tyrion killing Shae, given the changes to their relationship. But if I'm wrong they need to start portraying him as the grey character he is at this point in the books (I hope they'll keep Simon Sliver Tounge), or it will either come completely out of the left field or will be played up as one of the tragic love storys D&D seem to love. Seriously, Shae refusing a bag of diamonds out of sweet, sweet luv was so corny I wouldn't be surprised if she'll forgive Tyrion with her dying breath after he strangles her.

[Yarp]

I meant "innocent" in the sense that she didn't deserve to be murdered...Still, that's a different issue from how I feel about Tyrion killing her, which I still think is monstrous and completely unjustified. I find it strange that a lot of readers decide that, because they (like myself) think Shae was in the wrong, that automatically dismisses Tyrion's decision to strangle her. This is not the case at all to me. I still see him as having killed an innocent girl.

Meh. Regardless of her motives, she played an active role in a conspiracy to kill him. Essentially she tried to kill him, and he killed her in turn.

I'm thinking that, in order to not jump the shark of TV-Shae's character and keep her sympathetic, she will somehow be convinced that turning on Tyrion will save Sansa. Perhaps Sansa won't escape until later than in the books, or Cersei or Tywin will lie to Shae about having her captive.

[kimo333]

They'll probably be pissed off because he isn't some moral paragon of good anymore.

[Mendoza]

I don't know, my feeling is non-reading tv only casual viewers don't really get bogged down in moral debates. I don't think they sit around wondering if King Robb should have executed Karstark or not for example. They're just angry at Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. They'll side with the hero and in this subplot, it will be Tyrion. Shae will be viewed as a backstabbing whore, regardless of her lack of agency at the hands of the Lannisters. Just my two cents.

[cade]

I don't know, my feeling is non-reading tv only casual viewers don't really get bogged down in moral debates. I don't think they sit around wondering if King Robb should have executed Karstark or not for example. They're just angry at Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. They'll side with the hero and in this subplot, it will be Tyrion. Shae will be viewed as a backstabbing whore, regardless of her lack of agency at the hands of the Lannisters. Just my two cents.

I agree and think forums like this are extreme outliers in how deeply they question the morality of main characters. From all I've seen over the years, even the Walter Whites and Tony Sopranos are/were largely loved and defended by general audiences, and D&D's Tyrion is just a lovable, kindly stuffed animal with a soft spot for booze and women.

[Bridgeburners]

I agree and think forums like this are extreme outliers in how deeply they question the morality of main characters. From all I've seen over the years, even the Walter Whites and Tony Sopranos are/were largely loved and defended by general audiences, and D&D's Tyrion is just a lovable, kindly stuffed animal with a soft spot for booze and women.

I can't say I have spoke to nearly as many Breaking Bad fans who defend Walter White in the late seasons as those who find him deplorable. But while I acknowledge that there's a large chunk of audience who simply don't care to make the distinction between a TV-portrayed protagonist and a person of moral high ground, I really doubt we can draw a correlation between those people, and those who haven't read aSoIaF. If D&D decide to go through with Tyrion killing Shae, I imagine that the fraction of the population of viewers who commend his action would largely reflect that same fraction of readers with the same viewpoint. Any deviation from that would probably be due to the differences in portrayal of those events between D&D and GRRM. But, in fact, that imbalance may favour a larger portion of the TV audience turning from Tyrion because of how much more emphasis they put in casting Shae in a sympathetic light.

Of course, now that I got myself so worked up over how the TV audience will react, I really hope they do stay true to this event, so I can witness it.

Imo in the show they made the right choice to postpone Arya's coin/kill to the right moment so that we can understand why she goes over the edge and descent to a darker place. We retain sympathy for her even though we see first hand that she is a cold-blooded murderer. Much more believeable than in the books. They need to retain a similar sensible approach with Tyrion.

Specific actions by some 'good' characters at the end of Deadwood really left a bad taste and put off many fans. If it had continued it would have been very difficult for many viewers to empathise with those characters again. We'll never know, but it was a very poor judgement imo. They need to handle Tyrion carefully or risk the same alienation - murdering your lover for (almost) whatever reason is not a 'grey' act. It's fifteen-to-life.

Arya's Harrenhall portions of the show were much more vanilla, and far less dark than they were in the books. But even before then, Arya was pretty twisted as it was. I doubt Ned spent a lot of time teaching her about the gallantry of knighthood (nor was she interested in hearing those tales) so I imagine she has a very distorted view of morality. I imagine that, just like how Joffrey took the wrong fragments of Robert's behaviour to model his own, Arya did the same thing with Ned Stark. But the point is I think that her TV character is not nearly as twisted as her book character, which is why they forced such delays.

BTW, I just finished watching the last episode of Deadwood today, and I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about what Al Swearington did? Because if so, I would hardly deem that outside his character. He did order the murder of a 5 year old girl in one of the early S1 episodes, remember? I like that the show was just reminding us of who he really is, despite the fact that he grew on us throughout.

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

Shae was not innocent in the books. As other posters have already mentioned, she was fully aware that her testimony would not only condemn Tyrion to death, but Sansa as well. That alone was enough for me to lose all sympathy for her. I should also note that I did not believe Shae when she said that she was forced into testifying against Tyrion and until someone’s POV chapter proves me wrong (say, a Cersei chapter) … I will continue to feel great satisfaction whenever I read her death scene.

The fact that she was in Tywin’s bed was only the icing on the cake in the end. It served more to highlight Tywin’s hypocrisy than anything else.

With that said, book Shae and Tv Shae are two different characters. I never got the impression that book Shae cared about Tyrion. They have gone out of their way to humanize Shae in the tv series and make it seem like she actually cares about Tyrion.

So I may feel a little more sympathetic towards her depending on how it all plays out.

I think Tyrion will do it though (I hope, anyway.) Tywin killing her is a copout to me. Even if it is revealed that Cersei did in fact blackmail and/or manipulate Shae into testifying against Tyrion, if Shae also lies about Sansa in the show then I will not mourn her death since they’ve also invested a lot of time in that friendship as well.

[drstrangelove]

I don't... repeat don't want this to.happen.

But... I think Tywin is gonna kill shae. And Tyrion will kill Tywin. They have developed her to be Tyrion's true love. Also all this nonsense about her jealousy. It was just cheesy. I have a very bad feeling that they are going to go George Lucas on us and change history. Han shoots first remember?

They are kinda making him become the Lannister Ned.

[Frumpus]

they'll probably change the tv show to have Shae killed by Tywin or someone else other than Tyrion.

[l3ol3o]

Tyrion has to kill Shae IMO.

I am a big Tyrion fan but part of the reason I like him so much is because of his darker side and all his troubles. If Tyrion doesn't kill Shae and show some darkness I don't know what they will do with his story line in ADWD where he is so depressed and down.

Tyrion being betrayed by Shae is hugely damaging to him. Then on top of that he finds out Jaime was lying to him for years. Those are the two people he cared about the most and he finds out both were being false to him.

I really hope they don't change something this important.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I don't... repeat don't want this to.happen.

But... I think Tywin is gonna kill shae. And Tyrion will kill Tywin. They have developed her to be Tyrion's true love. Also all this nonsense about her jealousy. It was just cheesy. I have a very bad feeling that they are going to go George Lucas on us and change history. Han shoots first remember?

They are kinda making him become the Lannister Ned.

I don't understand why they'd want to cut Tywin being a hypocrit and shockingly bedding Shae. Even if it doesn't mesh well with the story and character development, I really doubt these guys would give up an opportunity to be extremely shocking. I don't get the point of the gold chain and the animosity between them (Jealousy) if they're just going to have Tywin kill her.

[Frumpus]

Tyrion has to kill Shae IMO.

I am a big Tyrion fan but part of the reason I like him so much is because of his darker side and all his troubles. If Tyrion doesn't kill Shae and show some darkness I don't know what they will do with his story line in ADWD where he is so depressed and down.

Tyrion being betrayed by Shae is hugely damaging to him. Then on top of that he finds out Jaime was lying to him for years. Those are the two people he cared about the most and he finds out both were being false to him.

I really hope they don't change something this important.

They already have. Tyrion has been turned into a far more moral/good person on the show than he was in the books. So if he kills Shae, the tv audience will revolt.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Tyrion will kill Shae, not Tywin. And the television audience most certainly will not revolt.

[six]

Tyrion will kill Shae, not Tywin. And the television audience most certainly will not revolt.

How would they get to that point convincingly? Because atm Shae is very unrealistically refusing money to hang around Tyrion and be the jealous girlfriend. How do you make it a believable character progression to have Shae to go from this to betray Tyrion?

As for people going against Tyrion if he went over the dark side, I agree it won't happen. It would be shocking, but like I've said plenty of times, characters don't need to be morally good to be liked, and there are plenty of examples in literature/tv/cinema of characters who are loved despite their terrible actions.

[Khal-a-bunga]

The fact that she thinks Tyrion sent Varys to send her off may be the incident that truly begins this progression, though Tyrion marrying Sansa certainly didn't help matters. I'm sure that their relationship will somehow take a turn for the worst before the Purple Wedding happens, however. That, and when directly faced with your own mortality, some people will do whatever they must to survive. As for the specifics, obviously I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet genuine internet dollars that Tyrion is the one to murder Shae, as it's a pretty pivotal moment for the character. There are a number of ways they can approach this development, and I don't think any of them would require a whole lot of set-up in order to be pulled off convincingly.

I also think that, if anything, the audience will be more interested in Tyrion after next season (though they might be a bit disappointed by what comes next for him). I've never taken issue with the more wholesome portrayal of Tyrion in the show, because I understand the need for there to be someone to anchor the audience to in a series that has so much going on with so many different characters in nearly as many locations. Furthermore, I never had doubts about whether or not they would have him kill both Tywin and Shae, simply because it's such a huge moment for the character.

I mean, he really gets hit with it in those last two hundred or so pages of A Storm of Swords: Imprisoned. Betrayed by family, friends and his lover. Loses his trial by combat, when it had seemed like all but a sure thing towards the end, condemning him to death. And on top of that, he finds out that Tysha actually wasn't a whore, and that his brother - one of the very few people Tyrion truly loves - had been lying to him all those years. And on top of that, he finds Shae in bed with his father. It's just a brutal series of events.

That said, maybe they'll make it even more brutal. Maybe Shae's end will take on tragic undertones, and this will be what drives Tyrion deeply into depression and self-deprecation. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. But, on a side-note, I'm finding myself very intrigued by the idea of Jaime & Tyrion sharing a few scenes before the Purple Wedding. In fact, Jaime & Brienne being back in King's Landing at this point in the story just seems interesting to me, altogether. Excited to see what they do with that. I know a lot of people think that George is writing the wedding, but I'm not so sure. I think it's more likely we'll see it happen in the third episode (fourth at the absolute latest). I think the episode George is writing will introduce a lot of new faces (Oberyn, Ellaria, Mace, maybe Coldhands), and feature the death of Balon Greyjoy. Again, just speculation based on nothing in particular, at this point. We'll have to wait on some spy reports and/or leaked set photos before we have anything more concrete to go on.

[lyanna_maria]

I think the murder of Shae was a horrible act, but I do have this feeling of “she had it coming”; some say she might’ve been tortured or threatened, but I have the impression that she gave this false testimony in exchange for gold and promises, and that is really dishonest.

Regarding the show, I think the writers aren’t gonna change the fact that Tyrion kills Shae, but I do think they will change her motivations, and that’s the only logical thing to do: Shae’s motivations must be different because “show Shae” is completely different. I can’t imagine show Shae betraying Tyrion for gold. Given that there are true feelings involved in her relationship with Tyrion, true feelings have to be involved in her betrayal so it will be plausible. That’s why I think that their relationship will take a turn to the worst in the 4^th season; they will probably break up or have some huge fight, and Shae (who in the show is fussy, proud and a bit impulsive) will testify against him out of spite, jealousy, revenge or something like that.

To have her be tortured and threatened could work in the show, but I don’t think they will go that way because they won’t want the audience to sympathize with her: they will want the audience to hate her so that they won’t hate Tyrion so much for being a killer.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I've yet to see anyone explain what the point of all the jealousy/animosity between Shae and Tyrion during S3 would be for if they were going to change her demise. If she's the whore with a heart of gold that would never betray Tyrion then why did I watch all of those scenes? And then why the gold chain?