How will the TV Audience feel about Tyrion? (Book 3 Spoiler)

[Cas Stark]

I've yet to see anyone explain what the point of all the jealousy/animosity between Shae and Tyrion during S3 would be for if they were going to change her demise. If she's the whore with a heart of gold that would never betray Tyrion then why did I watch all of those scenes? And then why the gold chain?

She will definitely be strangled with the gold chain, the question is, who strangles her.

I would say that the show has miscalculated again here with their changes to Shae if they're going to have Tyrion kill her, no matter what she does from here on, it has been set up from the beginning that she loves Tyrion and is loyal to him and wants to leave Westeros with him, even if she ultimately betrays him it will be out of pain and hurt feelings, not like in the book, when she simply saw which way the wind was blowing and took the opportunity to cash in. If Tyrion kills her, it will be MUCH darker of an act than it was in the book,and the show overall has made the characters more likeable, not less.

Also, sometimes the show does fairly random things that don't have a payoff, like Cat's speech about Jon as a baby, Talisa's letter writing, LOL, Pod's sexual prowess, keeping Ramsey's identity a secret.

[Yarp]

Also, sometimes the show does fairly random things that don't have a payoff, like Cat's speech about Jon as a baby...

I thought that worked pretty well about a scene. Unfortunately, it didn't lead to a "Jon becomes the heir" type situation.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

She will definitely be strangled with the gold chain, the question is, who strangles her.

I would say that the show has miscalculated again here with their changes to Shae if they're going to have Tyrion kill her, no matter what she does from here on, it has been set up from the beginning that she loves Tyrion and is loyal to him and wants to leave Westeros with him, even if she ultimately betrays him it will be out of pain and hurt feelings, not like in the book, when she simply saw which way the wind was blowing and took the opportunity to cash in. If Tyrion kills her, it will be MUCH darker of an act than it was in the book,and the show overall has made the characters more likeable, not less.

Also, sometimes the show does fairly random things that don't have a payoff, like Cat's speech about Jon as a baby, Talisa's letter writing, LOL, Pod's sexual prowess, keeping Ramsey's identity a secret.

Having them actually love each other makes it all a bit more tragic, rather than Tyrion being an idiot again. Since we don't get his thoughts, we don't truly get to see the inner turmoil a lifetime of rejection and repulsion has caused. Sure, it will make Shae look worse, but we don't exactly know how it's going to play out, as in what will cause her to finally testify against him. Cat's scene served a purpose to demonstrate grief for what's happened to her family, even if it was odd. Again, there's no need to have like 5 scenes in S3 with animosity between the two if she's not going to turn on him in the end, either willfully or forcibly.

The only problem I'm picturing is her banging Tywin while Tyrion was basically a dead man. I have a feeling that Tywin will leave her no choice, order her up to his chambers, Tyrion sees her in the bed and off she goes.

Now I'm just reminded that book Tywin took sloppy seconds from Tyrion and it seems so incomprehensible (since there are tons of other whores). So on the flipside that aspect of it will always be weird.

[rystine]

I believe that the show will still have Tyrion kill Shae. And, if I had to bet, they will do it by forcing Shae to choose between protecting Tyrion or Sansa.

In the books, Shae's testimony implicated both Tyrion and Sansa. The show will probably change that detail.

In the show, Shae is obviously very devoted to Tyrion, and perhaps even more devoted to Sansa. In fact there was a line in the final episode in which Shae said something along the lines of being willing to kill to protect Sansa.

So they simply have to have imply that Shae is given a choice by Cersei (or some Lannister minion): testify against Tyrion and Sansa will not be charged with killing Joffrey when she is found, or don't testify and Sansa will be killed too.

The only murky question is how/why does Shae end up in Tywin's bed? But honestly that isn't really clear in the book either.

[Daske]

BTW, I just finished watching the last episode of Deadwood today, and I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about what Al Swearington did? Because if so, I would hardly deem that outside his character. He did order the murder of a 5 year old girl in one of the early S1 episodes, remember? I like that the show was just reminding us of who he really is, despite the fact that he grew on us throughout.

No, as you say totally in keeping with Al. I don't seem him as a grey character - he is a bad bad man, albeit a facinating one. Rather that with no warning the 'good' characters basically go along with it in total disregard to the moral high ground storylines they had been running since day one. The victim was basically a human sacrifice and they seemed to just say 'oh well... shit happens!' totally out of character.

[Khal-a-bunga]

No, as you say totally in keeping with Al. I don't seem him as a grey character - he is a bad bad man, albeit a facinating one. Rather that with no warning the 'good' characters basically go along with it in total disregard to the moral high ground storylines they had been running since day one. The victim was basically a human sacrifice and they seemed to just say 'oh well... shit happens!' totally out of character.

I'll defer to a favorite critic of mine on how I subsequently interpreted the finale of Deadwood:

http://www.avclub.co...omething,32655/

His retrospective articles on the series are uniformly fantastic, all around, so if you're interested in watching or re-watching the series, I highly recommend following along with these analyses as you go.

[Fightbringer]

the show will have tyrion kill shae, its already shown it doesnt back down on the very dark bits of the books (if anything it takes them to new levels) so that is definitely going to happen in my mind. Unlike in the books however, they will have the opportunity to show us why shae testified against him, and in the books its never really fully explained other than a very short and interrupted excuse from shae (who'd be biased) which she tells tyrion as he's about to kill her, i have no idea how it would be done though, as there is nothing that really can be used to blackmail her other than doing stuff to tyrion or to sansa (who is already out of the way) they could just tell her that if she testifies, tyrion will be allowed to take the black instead of being executed.

I hope that the viewers dont like tyrion for doing that, cos it wouldnt be enough for most of them to hate him altogether, just a stain on his character. Its important for them to realise that tyrion isnt all moral and good, and probably from that point onwards, Tyrion is more bad than good, he does some pretty bad things in aDwD

I'll be interested to see if and how the show gets her into tywins bed. They might do some very weird scenes with tywin and shae.

[go joff go]

Also people should remember that the show has suggested that Shae is a plant from the beginning. It think the revelation that she was spy all a long is going to lose her a lot of points.

[dtones520]

Once they see Shae bedded up with Tywin they probably won't care too much. Especially after she lies in court about Tyrion and Sansa. She could have testified and gone on about her life as a whore elsewhere, but she showed her true colors when she got in bed with her former lover or employers father.

[Woman of War]

I have trouble imagining that Shae would give that spiteful "giant of Lannister" line and the juicy show about Tyrion taking her every way possible, the pervert little dwarf serving everyone's fantasies, if she had merely been bribed into testifying by fear for Tyrion and Sansa.. If she were promised that Tyrion might take the black or Sansa would be safe there would be no reason from her side to be extra spiteful.

And this spitefulness, showing that she never cared for Tyrion, was one reason for her getting killed, apart from being in Tywin's bed. Tyrion may have realized that Shae's testimony was forced or bribed if she had not decorated it with so much ugly dedication.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

A lot of people seem to be worried that they will change it to keep Tyrion likeable, but I highly doubt that will happen.

Tyrion gave her a gold chain in episode 7 of season 3 so the murder weapon is there and frankly the whole purple wedding/trial/escape is just too good to change.

People worried they were gonna cop out on the RW but they fucking nailed it IMO.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

Agreed, to give a reason for Tyrion to kill him when he escapes. The setup in S3 seems to be pointing this way.

Tyrion gave her a golden chain as a present inS3.

Since the chain of the hand is now a pin, why would they bother giving Shae a golden chain, a really thick strangle-ly looking one, if they gonna do some thing else?

Have faith IMO.

[UKS]

I feel they may turn the "first wife" plot into Shaes plot. Even though they have already mentioned it.

Zap Shae in someway. Perhaps even Tyrion.

Then Jamie outs the truth to Tyrion.

Tyrion kills Tywin in a rage. "Don't call Shae a whore" "Wherever Whores go" TWANG.

I just do not know how they would bring Shae back from "Loving, caring Shae" to "lying, betraying, out for herself Shae"

[The Prince of Newcastle]

I agree and think forums like this are extreme outliers in how deeply they question the morality of main characters. From all I've seen over the years, even the Walter Whites and Tony Sopranos are/were largely loved and defended by general audiences, and D&D's Tyrion is just a lovable, kindly stuffed animal with a soft spot for booze and women.

I agree. I know people who defend Walter White.

The whole "Skylar is a bitch" thing comes from her being a completely normal person in a horrific situation and trying to stop Walt being "bad ass" (Read: Mass murdering psychopath).

Anyway have faith people, all major plot point have been covered faithfully so far I believe.

[Nymeria...gloves..]

I believe that the show will still have Tyrion kill Shae. And, if I had to bet, they will do it by forcing Shae to choose between protecting Tyrion or Sansa.

YUP. Love this.

[Nymeria...gloves..]

forget Shae...the real challenge for the showrunners is Tysha.

How do you sell Tyrions motivation to go ape shit on Jamie (his brother/savior) based on a character (Tysha) that we've never seen on screen and has only been mentioned twice.

Thats a hard sell...

This show doesnt do flashbacks, so they are going to have to do some clever dialog throughout the season that seeds in Tyrions true love and hurt for Tysha (while at the same time not making his love for Shae any weaker)

They are gonna have to think outside of the box for this one, cuz i can see this love triangle as being a huge mess.

[lyanna_maria]

I don't think they did such a bad job conveying Tyrion's feelings regarding the Tysha thing. In the conversation with Bronn and Shae when he tells the story Tyrion's pain and regrets are portrayed brilliantly by Peter Dinklage, so that point is made. And during the show they have mentioned it more than once, I think: right now I remember Bronn joking about it, and Tyrion answering "I should never have told you that", meaning he still cares; and, more important, when Tywin says "It's about time you get married" Tyrion answers, with a voice full of anger: "I was married".

I will talk to some non-reader friends to see what they think about it, but I think Tyrion's motivations are not gonna come as a big surprise. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Creepio]

I don't think they'll have him kill Shae. I hope I'm wrong because the best part of this series are the shades of grey. But I had a feeling Shae might take the place of Ser Dontos in Sansa's escape, and that's how they'll neatly wrap up that story line.

The irony is Shae is such an annoying character I'm not sure people would hold it against Tyrion anyway.

[franko99]

I don't think they'll have him kill Shae. I hope I'm wrong because the best part of this series are the shades of grey. But I had a feeling Shae might take the place of Ser Dontos in Sansa's escape, and that's how they'll neatly wrap up that story line.

The irony is Shae is such an annoying character I'm not sure people would hold it against Tyrion anyway.

Dontos will be taking the place of Dontos, we already have confirmation of the actor filming for season 4.

As for Shae being annoying, I agree, but most non-readers really like her, for some unknown reason :dunno:

[franko99]

I have trouble imagining that Shae would give that spiteful "giant of Lannister" line and the juicy show about Tyrion taking her every way possible, the pervert little dwarf serving everyone's fantasies, if she had merely been bribed into testifying by fear for Tyrion and Sansa.. If she were promised that Tyrion might take the black or Sansa would be safe there would be no reason from her side to be extra spiteful.

And this spitefulness, showing that she never cared for Tyrion, was one reason for her getting killed, apart from being in Tywin's bed. Tyrion may have realized that Shae's testimony was forced or bribed if she had not decorated it with so much ugly dedication.

I totally agree with this...

the show will have tyrion kill shae, its already shown it doesnt back down on the very dark bits of the books (if anything it takes them to new levels) so that is definitely going to happen in my mind. Unlike in the books however, they will have the opportunity to show us why shae testified against him, and in the books its never really fully explained other than a very short and interrupted excuse from shae (who'd be biased) which she tells tyrion as he's about to kill her, i have no idea how it would be done though, as there is nothing that really can be used to blackmail her other than doing stuff to tyrion or to sansa (who is already out of the way) they could just tell her that if she testifies, tyrion will be allowed to take the black instead of being executed.

I hope that the viewers dont like tyrion for doing that, cos it wouldnt be enough for most of them to hate him altogether, just a stain on his character. Its important for them to realise that tyrion isnt all moral and good, and probably from that point onwards, Tyrion is more bad than good, he does some pretty bad things in aDwD

I'll be interested to see if and how the show gets her into tywins bed. They might do some very weird scenes with tywin and shae.

...and this. D+D have proved that they don't fear about showing the darker side of this story, and sometimes make them even worse, like Talisa's death. If they made Talisa being pregnant only to be stabbed in the baby, I'm sure Tyrion killing his lover (even if she's a whore with a heart of gold) won't stop them