How will the TV Audience feel about Tyrion? (Book 3 Spoiler)

[Longspear Ryk]

shes got dumb slut written all over her in the books... in the show shes a completely different person. i guess we'll have to see how early season 4 plays out..

[Bridgeburners]

I totally agree with this...

...and this. D+D have proved that they don't fear about showing the darker side of this story, and sometimes make them even worse, like Talisa's death. If they made Talisa being pregnant only to be stabbed in the baby, I'm sure Tyrion killing his lover (even if she's a whore with a heart of gold) won't stop them

The show hasn't shied from dark moments. But what it has shied away from, IMO, is showing the flaws or dark side of beloved characters. It seems to me like if a character is very well regarded among the TV audience, D&D white-knight the shit out of them. I have confidence in them to keep all the morbidness of scenes, but I don't put quite as much confidence in them risking the wroth of the producers by putting into question the character inclinations of the fans. It's a very "customer-is-always-right" attitude that I'm not too sure the show has broken past yet.

[Bridgeburners]

I agree. I know people who defend Walter White.

The whole "Skylar is a bitch" thing comes from her being a completely normal person in a horrific situation and trying to stop Walt being "bad ass" (Read: Mass murdering psychopath).

Anyway have faith people, all major plot point have been covered faithfully so far I believe.

Many don't consider Tyrion killing Shae as a major plot point. It's more a major character twist for Tyrion. They already have twisted things like that with, IMO, equal magnitude. Such as the orders for baby-slaying and Tyrion-nose-carving going from Cersei to Joffrey. Or Rodrik going from being killed by some stray sword in Ramsay's company to getting beheaded by Theon.

It's amazing how many people jump on the bandwagon of "Skyler is a bitch". That's such an on-the-surface assessment of the situation. Plus she's such an awesome, cool, mostly-right character with just the right sprinkle of human weakness. Part of me thinks the bandwagon comes from a bit of sexism. I tend to notice a lot more negative opinions against female characters than male, but it's hard to tell if that's a function of the viewers/readers or the writers. (In Wheel of Time, for example, it's like 99.999% the writer)

[Mr Smith]

TV Shae is likeable?

[echidna]

TV Shae is likeable?

Yes, but more in a sassy girl who's looking after herself way.

I think that between the set up of Varys offering Shae diamonds to leave, all the shite that'll be pushed onto poor 'innocent' Tyrion, and the undoubtedly Amazing death scene that Charles Dance will give us, that it'll hit the unsullied like the Red Wedding

[Lothar]

I hope they DO change it and have Tywin kill Shae because that moment in the book made me completely stop liking or caring about Tyrion. No, it's not okay to murder a woman because she gives a false testimony against you. It's really not okay to murder a woman because she embarrasses you, which is honestly the way it came off as. He didn't intend to kill her until she repeated that "Giant of Lannister" line. It really comes off as bizarre writing like Martin wants us to think it's okay because she embarrassed him.

If they change this, it will be an improvement on the story.

This is true even when Shae is unlikable in the book. In the show, she's actually likable. She's nice and protective to Sansa, she doesn't care about jewelry, and tries to convince Tyrion to run away with her.

Most people began hating Walter White not even for killing a girl that was against him, but just for not saving her life. People will loathe Tyrion for killing this Shae. I already loathe book Tyrion for killing the unlikable Shae.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Some people will. And you're supposed to loathe him for that...so to say it's an improvement to the story makes little sense.

[franko99]

The show hasn't shied from dark moments. But what it has shied away from, IMO, is showing the flaws or dark side of beloved characters. It seems to me like if a character is very well regarded among the TV audience, D&D white-knight the shit out of them. I have confidence in them to keep all the morbidness of scenes, but I don't put quite as much confidence in them risking the wroth of the producers by putting into question the character inclinations of the fans. It's a very "customer-is-always-right" attitude that I'm not too sure the show has broken past yet.

Yes, I agree, but D+D like to go to extremes, if we can take Jaime as an example, they try to make him as evil as possible when he was the "bad guy", TV!Jaime is not only a kingslayer, but kinslayer as well, and he didn't even need a good reason to kill his cousin, he kill him just because he's a monster (producers own words), but then one year later, he's the "hero" of season 3, and now they make him completely likeable. They can do the same with Tyrion.

I don't necessarily agree, but for some reason, D+D always prefer shock/surprise over continuity, characters go from good to evil in the blink of an eye, instead of always being gray, and now showing the other side of the coin.

I hope they DO change it and have Tywin kill Shae because that moment in the book made me completely stop liking or caring about Tyrion. No, it's not okay to murder a woman because she gives a false testimony against you. It's really not okay to murder a woman because she embarrasses you, which is honestly the way it came off as. He didn't intend to kill her until she repeated that "Giant of Lannister" line. It really comes off as bizarre writing like Martin wants us to think it's okay because she embarrassed him.

If they change this, it will be an improvement on the story.

This is true even when Shae is unlikable in the book. In the show, she's actually likable. She's nice and protective to Sansa, she doesn't care about jewelry, and tries to convince Tyrion to run away with her.

Most people began hating Walter White not even for killing a girl that was against him, but just for not saving her life. People will loathe Tyrion for killing this Shae. I already loathe book Tyrion for killing the unlikable Shae.

But Tyrion always have a dark side, I mean, you didn't care when he threat to torture and rape Tommen, or when he gave prissoners to Joffrey so he can "play" with them and thrown them with trebuchets?? In the books, killing Shae wasn't out of character, and IMO is not the worst thing he has done, in the show, well...

And it was never GRRM intention to made the readers to be okay with the murder of Shae, the whole point of thread proves that

[The Mountain That Posts]

Hell, they didn't even let Cersei do a lot of the horrible things she does in the books, like having Robert's bastards killed and sending Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion, because it would have apparently made her too unsympathetic. Instead, they gave those actions to Joffrey.

Cersei wasn't the one who sent Ser Mandon Moore. The person who sent Ser Mandon Moore is Littlefinger. Loads of threads on this.

[franko99]

Cersei wasn't the one who sent Ser Mandon Moore. The person who sent Ser Mandon Moore is Littlefinger. Loads of threads on this.

We don't know who send Mandon Moore, yes it could be Littlefinger, but that's just a theory

[The Mountain That Posts]

We don't know who send Mandon Moore, yes it could be Littlefinger, but that's just a theory

It's the big theory. in the same way R + L = J and Oberyn poisoning Tywin and Frey Pies are all just theories still.

[Onna Lewyys]

Cersei wasn't the one who sent Ser Mandon Moore. The person who sent Ser Mandon Moore is Littlefinger. Loads of threads on this.

I'm pretty new still, so I've never seen a thread on that. I never even realized it was a debate. But like others have said, it's a theory not fact, so my point kind of still stands.

ETA: Just did a search and found some threads, and I have to say, the best case people were making was actually for Joffrey being the one who ordered the hit. So OK then, that one doesn't stand, but killing Robert's bastards I believe still does. If they don't even let Cersei kill people, I'll be shocked if they let Tyrion.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I'm pretty new still, so I've never seen a thread on that. I never even realized it was a debate. But like others have said, it's a theory not fact, so my point kind of still stands.

Well, it doesn't, because Cersei definitely doesn't send Mandon Moore to kill him. Tyrion just thinks it was her, but as omniscient readers of different PoVs we know it almost certainly wasn't Cersei and the most likely candidate is LF.

The difference between the show here is that Cersei all but admits that it wasn't her and considers that it probably was Joffrey, which is the next best guess. The books are a bit more subtle about such things, but the point is it wasn't Cersei in either version.

LF sending Mandon Moore is just as much a theory as Cersei sending him, just a much better one.

[go joff go]

Many don't consider Tyrion killing Shae as a major plot point. It's more a major character twist for Tyrion. They already have twisted things like that with, IMO, equal magnitude. Such as the orders for baby-slaying and Tyrion-nose-carving going from Cersei to Joffrey. Or Rodrik going from being killed by some stray sword in Ramsay's company to getting beheaded by Theon.

It's amazing how many people jump on the bandwagon of "Skyler is a bitch". That's such an on-the-surface assessment of the situation. Plus she's such an awesome, cool, mostly-right character with just the right sprinkle of human weakness. Part of me thinks the bandwagon comes from a bit of sexism. I tend to notice a lot more negative opinions against female characters than male, but it's hard to tell if that's a function of the viewers/readers or the writers. (In Wheel of Time, for example, it's like 99.999% the writer)

We actually don't know that Cercei didn't order those things in the show. She never denied them. Tyrion could very well have jumped to conclusions on that front.

[Onna Lewyys]

Well, it doesn't, because Cersei definitely doesn't send Mandon Moore to kill him. Tyrion just thinks it was her, but as omniscient readers of different PoVs we know it almost certainly wasn't Cersei and the most likely candidate is LF.

I was reluctant to respond because I can see this thread getting hugely off-topic, but you can't say "definitely" when it's not definite. And from what I've read now in the other threads I found, the LF theory does not make more sense IMO. Joffrey actually does make the most sense, so I admit I was wrong about that.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I was reluctant to respond because I can see this thread getting hugely off-topic, but you can't say "definitely" when it's not definite. And from what I've read now in the other threads I found, the LF theory does not make more sense IMO.

Fine - it's almost certainly not Cersei. Tyrion suspects it to be her. She literally never once thinks about in her PoV's and there is nothing really to corroborate it. So to claim that the show changed something is false, since we don't definitely know in either case.

[Onna Lewyys]

Fine - it's almost certainly not Cersei. Tyrion suspects it to be her. She literally never once thinks about in her PoV's and there is nothing really to corroborate it. So to claim that the show changed something is false, since we don't definitely know in either case.

Yes, I believe now that it was actually Joffrey, so the show didn't change it in that case. I still don't see them letting Tyrion strangle his girlfriend, though.

[Dann]

I can't see them leaving Tyrion murdering Shae and Tywin out of the series, and in regards to upsetting fans, surely the Red Wedding and Neds execution were both much more likely to anger fans and they still went along with both of them. But yeah I predict they'll portray their deaths in the same sort of way in the series as they did the books and as long as they remind viewers about Tysha and portray Shae's 'Betrayal' and reasons behind her testimony I can't see there being too much fan backlash.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Right now I think you can quite clearly see the beginnings of the rupture of their relationship. The only question I have is whether they will have Shae in Tywin's bed. That seems really tough to figure out. But it's quite believable that she will be manipulated into testifying against him. That's 100 times better TV than having her arbitrarily hung by Tywin.

[Onna Lewyys]

For the record, I would love for Tyrion to kill Shae in the show. I hate that he's been whitewashed so much, especially in regard to his huge issues with women. But it's that very fact that leads me to think it's unlikely that B&W will let him kill her. I guess it'll be a big test for them with me. If they do, I will be impressed; if they don't, I will forever call them gutless wonders.