Claire Stark Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just saying- just because Theon didn't tell us who the Hooded Man is doesn't mean he didn't recognize him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just saying- just because Theon didn't tell us who the Hooded Man is doesn't mean he didn't recognize him. It kind of does. We read what he thinks - so if he recognised him he would obviously think "oh look its ....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlesha Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 There is no Stark in Winterfell and nothing significant has really happened. It might be either Theon himself or Benjen Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thucydides Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It cannot be Robbet Glover, because he is known to be raising anti-Bolton troops, based on what Davos hears when he's listening at The Lazy Eel in White Harbor. Bran Vras's analysis in "The Winterfell Huis Clos" is surely correct that the Great Hall of Winterfell (where the Hooded Man was heading) is too small to admit of a known Bolton antagonist going unnoticed. The same applies to Benjen stark, who would certainly be recognized by multiple Northern lords. My money is on Septon Chayle, who would be as a ghost to Theon, since Theon himself murdered him by throwing him down a well. Also, he would likely pass unnoticed among the soldiers in the Great Hall at Winterfell. Also, since Chayle would have always been hiding in Winterfell after surviving his trip down the well (and no body was recovered, hint hint), there's no need to postulate how the hooded man entered during Bolton's Winterfell lockdown. BTW, I think that the "kinslayer" accusation is a red herring (in this respect, I disagree with Bran Vras's theorizing on one of the miller's kids being Theon's son). Lady Dustin refers to Bran and Rickon as Theon's foster-brothers. Chayle undoubted saw it the same way, and is especially bitter because he is an eye-witness to Theon's treachery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 My money is on Septon Chayle, who would be as a ghost to Theon, since Theon himself murdered him by throwing him down a well. Also, he would likely pass unnoticed among the soldiers in the Great Hall at Winterfell. Also, since Chayle would have always been hiding in Winterfell after surviving his trip down the well (and no body was recovered, hint hint), there's no need to postulate how the hooded man entered during Bolton's Winterfell lockdown. I guess it's possible, but doesn't Jojen foresee Chayle's death? I don't think we've ever seen Jojen be wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Kevan Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It just doesn't suit GRRM's writing style at all. Remember Jaime'mother visiting her son in Riverland ? ^^ Also for Harwin, it is not enough to be a strong rider for crossing the Neck. And if a spy in Riverrun make sense, why a spy in the North ? The brotherhood is in the south, at miles away. So an eye to watch Frey's move is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Remember Jaime'mother visiting her son in Riverland ? ^^ Also for Harwin, it is not enough to be a strong rider for crossing the Neck. And if a spy in Riverrun make sense, why a spy in the North ? The brotherhood is in the south, at miles away. So an eye to watch Frey's move is useless. Well I don't think we can discount Harwin reaching Winterfell, and we also don't know that Harwin was present at the scene with Brienne and LS. Why a spy in the North? Because the BWB will have heard about Ramsay marrying (f)Arya, so it's inconceivable that they wouldn't do anything about it. The first thing LS would do would be send someone to Winterfell, and Harwin's the perfect candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thucydides Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I guess it's possible, but doesn't Jojen foresee Chayle's death? I don't think we've ever seen Jojen be wrong before. Septon Chayle is one of the people that Jojen specifically mentions as being a drowned person that Jojen sees in the yard. The question would be whether being a casualty satisfies the prophecy, or being dead satisfies the prophecy. If being drowned symbolizes being a casualty of Theon's sack of Winterfell, then that would cover both those who died and those who were injured, and that would allow for Septon Chayle to be alive when he survives his injuries from being thrown down the well. Jojen also specifically saw Bran and Rickon lying dead at Reek's feet while Reek was flailing the skin off of their faces, so that we know that there's some amount of indirection or vagueness about his green dreams. So I don't consider it too much of a stretch for Septon Chayle to still be alive, Jojen's green dream notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Septon Chayle is one of the people that Jojen specifically mentions as being a drowned person that Jojen sees in the yard. The question would be whether being a casualty satisfies the prophecy, or being dead satisfies the prophecy. If being drowned symbolizes being a casualty of Theon's sack of Winterfell, then that would cover both those who died and those who were injured, and that would allow for Septon Chayle to be alive when he survives his injuries from being thrown down the well. Jojen also specifically saw Bran and Rickon lying dead at Reek's feet while Reek was flailing the skin off of their faces, so that we know that there's some amount of indirection or vagueness about his green dreams. So I don't consider it too much of a stretch for Septon Chayle to still be alive, Jojen's green dream notwithstanding. Good points. I'm open to the idea of Septon Chayle being the hooded man, but I still think Harwin's more likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thucydides Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Good points. I'm open to the idea of Septon Chayle being the hooded man, but I still think Harwin's more likely I agree that Harwin is a good candidate, also. I used to favor Glover, until I took notice of the intelligence that Davos collects at The Lazy Eel during my last reread. I was surprised at how disappointed I felt. There is a strong focus on ghosts in Theon's inner dialog, which leads me to think that the hooded man is a ghost figure to Theon, hence Septon Chayle. No way to know for sure, of course. It strikes me as odd how intense some of the arguments get when it comes to speculation about different outcomes. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have waited 10 years to read the books so that I didn't have to get stuck waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolquius Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 BTW, I think that the "kinslayer" accusation is a red herring (in this respect, I disagree with Bran Vras's theorizing on one of the miller's kids being Theon's son). Lady Dustin refers to Bran and Rickon as Theon's foster-brothers. Chayle undoubted saw it the same way, and is especially bitter because he is an eye-witness to Theon's treachery. But everyone in Westeros thinks that Theon is a turncloak and a kinslayer, especially in the North. Turncloak because he betrayed the Starks and got Winterfell, and then again he helped the Boltons with Moat Cailin. And kinslayer because he killed Bran and Rickon, or that is what everyone thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Theon Durden - It just doesn't suit GRRM's writing style at all. And there's not really any way he could explain it in the book.How many other works by Martin have you read? I haven't read any others except The Ice Dragon. I recall watching Beauty & the Beast and the new Twilight Zone and those were pretty trippy. And what about the weird rewind at the Bridge of Dream? (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96720-trying-to-explain-the-weird-rewind-at-the-bridge-of-dream/) Did that little episode fit his writing style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thucydides Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Personally, I think that Theon Durden would be an outrageously poor leap outside of the storytelling momentum of ASoIaF. GRRM's game is ASoIaF is to use utterly conventional elements of the genre, and turn them on their head by maneuvering the characters among these conventions in surprising ways. Split personalities a la Fight Club are simply not an element of the ASoIaF story, and it's too late in the series to introduce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell Resident Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Isn't the hooded man Mance Rayder? That was the impression that I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thucydides Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Mance Rayder is Abel, who is inside the Great Hall singing for Roose Bolton & co. at the time that Theon meets the hooded man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk12344 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Mance Rayder is Abel, who is inside the Great Hall singing for Roose Bolton & co. at the time that Theon meets the hooded man. According to some posters, Mance Rayder is some kind of superman who possess incredible super powers. So being in 2 places at the same time may be one of the powers he possesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thucydides Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 According to some posters, Mance Rayder is some kind of superman who possess incredible super powers. So being in 2 places at the same time may be one of the powers he possesses. True. For all we know, Mance Rayder is also Jaqen H'ghar. I have it on good authority that Mance Rayder built Mace Tyrell's Hand Shaped Hand Thone -- by hand, no less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 According to some posters, Mance Rayder is some kind of superman who possess incredible super powers. So being in 2 places at the same time may be one of the powers he possesses. There was a Mance = Rhaegar and Qhorin = Arthur Dayne theory not so long ago. We really need that TWoW or things will get out of control completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Warg Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 There was a Mance = Rhaegar and Qhorin = Arthur Dayne theory not so long ago. We really need that TWoW or things will get out of control completely. Oh dear :bang: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 A question that should be asked is why this mysterious stranger doesn't kill Theon on the spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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