LGBTQ The Next

[Robin Of House Hill]

I never thought claiming it was a mitigating factor. I never felt the slightest urge to release classified documents. I won't even talk about some of the experiences I had, because I don't know if any part of them are still classified.

When it comes to the psychological aspect of its personnel, the military doesn't know very much. It knows that unless the economy goes into the crapper, most of its personnel will be there for only one enlistment.

At some level I understand the Army's position. It was, after all, the organization directly betrayed by Manning. Having seen that statement, I fear she'll be put into general population and that is almost certainly a death sentence.

[karaddin]

Well the defense certainly tried to use it as a mitigating factor from what I read, and it seemed like his superior officer essentially corroborated that saying in effect "Yes I knew Manning was having a mental breakdown, it was about something I couldn't officially acknowledge without Manning getting kicked out and I needed the intelligence officer so couldn't let that happen". Which you know, in a war where you are short of personnel I can't even blame them for that decision, the problem was denying assistance so they need to let trans people serve openly.

So it's not that trans itself is mitigating, its just kind of "temporary insanity" defense.

[karaddin]

Slate have a good piece on both explaining why the 35 year sentence is both reasonable (in length) and not connected to Obama's campaign against whistleblowers and also suggests that if what you fear doesn't happen then she may be out even sooner than the 8 years I was seeing put about.

Finally, there are some interesting passages in Army Regulation 15-130, which deals with clemencies and paroles. According to Section 3-1.e(1)©, a prisoner sentenced for 30 years or longer is eligible for parole after serving 10 years—or, subtracting the time Manning has already served, 6½ years. Even more alluring, Section 3-1.d(5) states that a prisoner sentenced to 30 years or longer can apply for clemency (a pardon or reduced sentence) a mere three years “from the date confinement began”—in other words, Manning could apply for clemency now—and can reapply “at least annually thereafter.”

Janet Mock also has a good post spring boarding off the issue to talk about trans health care in general.

[Robin Of House Hill]

The chance of her being granted clemency is slim to none. I have to ponder a few things. This case is putting me in conflict with myself and I need to work that out.

[karaddin]

Well even the parole figure was sooner than I expected, I had been hearing 8 years not 6.5.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Even parole isn't automatic.

Well, it is getting late (for me). I'm going to call it a day. Besides, I've got to resolve something that has me tied up in a knot. Before Manning's statement, I didn't think 35 years was sufficient. Now, I find myself concerned over the conditions that would need to be endured for 8. I know it isn't rational and I'm not very comfortable with that.

[karaddin]

Certainly not and if the institutions are committed to keeping her there she will serve the full 35 years. She's at least got allies in the ACLU though so not alone there.

Night!

[Robin Of House Hill]

Good night. I'm beginning to feel like Javert, at the end of Les Miserables.

[Lyanna Stark]

Haven't kept up with a lot of the posts (you guys post so much! But it is great reading to catch up, so I do not mind :) ) but I thought I'd post a bit about the kerfuffle surrounding the Track and Field World Championships in Russia recently.

The Swedish high-jumper Emma Green Tregaro showed her support for Russia's oppressed LGBTQ people by painting her fingernails in rainbow colours, but this was not the end of it.

This has caused a huge stir in Sweden and despite other Swedish athletes gaining gold medals, the most talked about event was the rainbow nails and what happened after, especially the terrible response from the Swedish Olympic Committee and other sports organisations, and it eventually went international as well, with even Stephen Fry commenting, among others.

At about the same time, the crosswalk outside the Russian embassy in Stockholm got painted in rainbow colours.

[Lightning Lord]

Haven't kept up with a lot of the posts (you guys post so much! But it is great reading to catch up, so I do not mind :) ) but I thought I'd post a bit about the kerfuffle surrounding the Track and Field World Championships in Russia recently.

The Swedish high-jumper Emma Green Tregaro showed her support for Russia's oppressed LGBTQ people by painting her fingernails in rainbow colours, but this was not the end of it.

This has caused a huge stir in Sweden and despite other Swedish athletes gaining gold medals, the most talked about event was the rainbow nails and what happened after, especially the terrible response from the Swedish Olympic Committee and other sports organisations, and it eventually went international as well, with even Stephen Fry commenting, among others.

At about the same time, the crosswalk outside the Russian embassy in Stockholm got painted in rainbow colours.

The Russian pole vaulter mouthed a response that I've seen quite often...that foreigners have to respect the laws of the country to which they travel. Nitpicking the language...no I do not have to respect these kind of shit laws/opinions. I can choose to obey or not obey them, but I'll never respect these kinds of laws or the governments that pass them.

I've been trying to decide if this f***ed up law should prevent me from traveling to Russia. I have a hard time staying quiet and not spreading "propaganda" along the lines of "gay /= bad."

[TerraPrime]

From the U.S. politics thread, concerning the request from Manning for hormone replacement treatment on account of her transgender identity.

You'll have to explain that because it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know why it makes no sense to you, other than an unwillingness to intellectually engage in this thought experiment. Your argument is that sex reassignment, whether it's hormone-based or surgery-based, are unnecessary, elective, and comparable to face-lifts and breast enlargement. So if you think that having a set of genital that matches a person's perception of self is an elective and medically unnecessary procedure, what's your thought on the likelihood that a cisgender male can elect to forego his own penis? If a man were castrated, against his will, how would that affect his psychological state?

If we look at examples from survivors of breast cancer who had to undergo mastectomy or double mastectomy, there are plenty of patients who undergo severe depression and mental anguish at the loss of an integral part of their personal identity that strongly signifies their sexual identity. For a FtM transgender person, it's as if they were born with a double mastectomy. That's the level of mental anguish we're talking about, not the same type of mental anguish from someone who cannot look 5 years younger from a botox injection.

"Natural progression"? Poor choice of words. There is nothing natural about having an operation to completely alter the physical shape and chemical make-up of your body.

You're misinterpreting the descriptor. The "natural" part refers to the progression, that once someone identifies as a transgender person, the next step is to start hormone replacement treatment, and eventually, a sex reassignment surgery (though not all trans* people desire the surgery).

Also, your understanding of natural is rather limited. Humans, like all organisms, exhibit a wide range of variance on all our traits. Transgender identity is no less, or more, natural than cisgender identity or heterosexuality. These people develop their identities not as a result of chemical mutagens or forced psychological conditioning. In fact, they develop these identities despite the immensely powerful social pressure to conform. The genesis of their transgender identity is, by definition, natural, i.e., something that occurs in nature without adulteration.

And where are you getting this information that he sorted his gender issues? Other than posting a photograph of himself with a wig, what has he done?

It is incredibly disrespectful to keep referring to Manning in the male pronoun after she has asked the rest of the world to change that. I don't know that you'd care that you're being extremely rude in doing this, but it bears stating in public.

Moving on.

She apparently has done enough to warrant his lawyer's deliberate suppression of that facet of his identity.

Besides, how bizarre an argument is it that she is not allowed to progress in her own transitioning process just because she was imprisoned and awaiting trial for years? Is there a law against someone developing their identity while imprisoned?

The fact remains that he is biologically a man. He has gone his whole life living as a man and any surgery to change that fact is going to be an elective procedure. It is not medically necessary.

Your assertions here are not backed by medical experts nor the lived experience of transgender people. It amounts to a exclamation from a disrespectful person ignorant and uncaring about these issues.

I suppose next you'll want to allow people sentenced to long term prison sentences to get priority on donor lists too right?

Priority? No. But they should be allowed to put their names on the waiting list.

Sorry but you'll need to play that 'woe-is-me' card somewhere else. I'm not buying it here. It's not retrograde, inappropriate, or disrespectful to say an elective medical procedure is elective. This really is about you not understanding the meaning of the word 'elective'.

No, the reality is that you're woefully unprepared to tackle the issue of transgender identity, as exemplified by the incorrect presumptions you revealed and by your choice of language.

[felice]

Before Manning's statement, I didn't think 35 years was sufficient.

What did you think would be a sufficient sentence for the murderers of unarmed men she blew the whistle on?

[MinDonner]

FYI: "elective" as used for medical procedures only means "not an immediate life-threatening emergency". So the removal of cancerous tumours that can be scheduled for next week, also counts as "elective".

[Seli]

Even parole isn't automatic.

Well, it is getting late (for me). I'm going to call it a day. Besides, I've got to resolve something that has me tied up in a knot. Before Manning's statement, I didn't think 35 years was sufficient. Now, I find myself concerned over the conditions that would need to be endured for 8. I know it isn't rational and I'm not very comfortable with that.

I'd say it could be rational. You want Manning to be punished, but not punished in a cruel and unusual way.

And in this case you have an insight on how cruel and unusual the time Manning has been convicted to could be.

[Robin Of House Hill]

The question I've been wrestling with, is would I have become concerned if Manning had announced anything other than being transgender? If I alter my view solely because I share that condition, that is hypocritical. That is why I'm lying awake at 4AM, tapping on my phone.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Why would it be hypocritical?

[karaddin]

Is there something else that she could have come out as that would result in the standard incarceration to turn into torture in this fashion? I can't think of anything else that really comes with a similar context. I think your position is fine Robin.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Wanting consideration for Manning, based only on a shared circumstance, seems pretty obvious to me.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Wanting consideration for Manning, based only on a shared circumstance, seems pretty obvious to me.

Favoritism?

Is it wrong for people with cancer or cancer survivors to get involved with politics of cancer treatment? Unless I'm missing something it seems no different than that.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Is there something else that she could have come out as that would result in the standard incarceration to turn into torture in this fashion? I can't think of anything else that really comes with a similar context. I think your position is fine Robin.

If she had come out as claustrophobic and had a tremendous fear of enclosed spaces, I probably wouldn't have cared.