No News from SDCC

[Newstar]

Did anyone anywhere recognize the "sad" instrumental music used in the second half of the "In Memoriam" video? It sounded like generic movie score music. I could have sworn I'd heard it before.

ETA: Found it (thanks to Youtube), it's "Heart of a Hero" by Sonic Librarian.

[Ser Luke.]

A bit disappointed, but Drogo's quick cameo was awesome.

[ebevan91]

The whole "lack of time" excuse for not having the Pycelle/Tywin scene is BS.

This season had some pretty short episodes even though they said they'd be longer.

[KingInTheCave]

The whole "lack of time" excuse for not having the Pycelle/Tywin scene is BS.

This season had some pretty short episodes even though they said they'd be longer.

They said it didn't fit, that doesn't mean lack of time. And this scene was supposed to be before the first council meeting, so it had to be somewhere during the frist two episodes, or maybe opening scene of episode 3.

[mitch176]

The In Memoriam video was pretty boss, especially the way some of the characters are identified ("Random Wight," "Robert's Bastard #1," "Baratheon Soldier #587," "Old Dude," Mean Stark Soldiers," etc.).

No Generic Bannerman #537??

#OursIsTheGeneric

[PatrickStormborn]

In regards to the shooting locale there are 4 possibilities:

1. You're mistaken, as you've just vaguely recollected this from WiC, although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
   
   
2. They've simply used a new shooting location for Yunkai, as they did with KL.
   
   
3. Meereen is in, but will be taken early into S4.
   
   
4. I'm wrong and Dany will spend 10 episodes taking Meereen.
   

You are right that Dany ruling Yunkai wasn't explicitly set up at the end of S3 however this could be because they simply thought that made the best ending scene, or because they wanted to keep their options open for S4.

It's not a vague recollection; WIC posted that they had heard Morocco will not continue to be used in production. It may just be a rumour, but their sources are usually accurate and this also fits with what we know about Emilia Clarke's schedule (she begins filming in September) and the use of Split in Croatia (which will include a desert scene). It's possible, of course, that they're using a different location for Yunkai... But the climate of Split is very different to that of Morocco, so it seems unlikely to me.

D+D don't tend to do strategy in the show though, so things like Meereen being better prepared ultimately won't make much of a difference imo in how this plot plays out. And of course you personally would like to see the taking of Meereen across an entire season, but for the wider TV audience I just don't see it as being interesting enough.

It will make a huge difference, regardless of how much attention D&D put into strategy. Yunkai was relatively easy for Dany to beat because they were unprepared and because - in show canon - Daario Naharis gave her the Second Sons (in the books the victory - which is the lack of casualties on her side, basically - was hers, but that's another topic). The Unsullied at the TWOP forum are aware of this and are unhappy with Dany's story. Compared to the Lannisters, her Slaver's Bay antagonists were very easy to defeat (which is, obviously, the point).

But Meereen is different. The Meereenese are prepared for her (this should be easy to demonstrate if done correctly); the city is bigger and stronger than Astapor and Yunkai; they've scorched the earth and left her vulnerable; and they even taunt Daenerys with crucified children and then the Champion. This time, unlike with the Yunkish, Dany does not hold all the cards. Not just because they're a serious threat and could actually beat her, but because she needs to take Meereen to keep her followers alive. This puts Dany in a very different place than season three. She's one of the most powerful and influential figures in Essos at this point, but she's still relatively powerless. This is the point where Dany begins to slip away and lose herself.

And then on top of that there is plenty of personal drama to work with. Sure, it probably won't be as interesting as season 3 (partly because the "Dracarys" scene is the highlight of her story until she rides Drogon), but I'm not sure it will be as unpopular as you suggest... And I think it's fair to say it will be far more popular than if Dany starts ruling one of the cities (the only reason I think that will work in season 5 is because Tyrion et al. are travelling to Dany and because of Daznak's Pit).

But, ultimately, I think there is enough interesting material elsewhere for this plot to work. In season 3, I imagine that Dany and Jaime's storylines were the highlights for a lot of viewers. In season 4, King's Landing will take that spot, and the Battle at the Wall will surely be impressive, so Dany's story can take more of a back seat. (And I think this needs repeating in every post: it will still be better than Dany's material in season 2.)

[franko99]

True but the official title is King in the North. Also I think it's supposed to be a term of respect to the North itself. The KitN might rule over the people of the North but they don't rule the Land or the Winter. Thousands of years ago they used to call themselves the Kings of Winter, but at some point (after the Long Night I guess) they were knocked down a peg or two and realised they were being a bit cocky.

A little off topic, but House Stark was founded after the Long Night, Brandon the Builder was the first Stark King, and he rule after the Others were defeated. We don't know why some King are "in the North" and others "of Winter" but it's not because of the Long Night IMO

It's not a vague recollection; WIC posted that they had heard Morocco will not continue to be used in production. It may just be a rumour, but their sources are usually accurate and this also fits with what we know about Emilia Clarke's schedule (she begins filming in September) and the use of Split in Croatia (which will include a desert scene). It's possible, of course, that they're using a different location for Yunkai... But the climate of Split is very different to that of Morocco, so it seems unlikely to me.

It will make a huge difference, regardless of how much attention D&D put into strategy. Yunkai was relatively easy for Dany to beat because they were unprepared and because - in show canon - Daario Naharis gave her the Second Sons (in the books the victory - which is the lack of casualties on her side, basically - was hers, but that's another topic). The Unsullied at the TWOP forum are aware of this and are unhappy with Dany's story. Compared to the Lannisters, her Slaver's Bay antagonists were very easy to defeat (which is, obviously, the point).

But Meereen is different. The Meereenese are prepared for her (this should be easy to demonstrate if done correctly); the city is bigger and stronger than Astapor and Yunkai; they've scorched the earth and left her vulnerable; and they even taunt Daenerys with crucified children and then the Champion. This time, unlike with the Yunkish, Dany does not hold all the cards. Not just because they're a serious threat and could actually beat her, but because she needs to take Meereen to keep her followers alive. This puts Dany in a very different place than season three. She's one of the most powerful and influential figures in Essos at this point, but she's still relatively powerless. This is the point where Dany begins to slip away and lose herself.

And then on top of that there is plenty of personal drama to work with. Sure, it probably won't be as interesting as season 3 (partly because the "Dracarys" scene is the highlight of her story until she rides Drogon), but I'm not sure it will be as unpopular as you suggest... And I think it's fair to say it will be far more popular than if Dany starts ruling one of the cities (the only reason I think that will work in season 5 is because Tyrion et al. are travelling to Dany and because of Daznak's Pit).

But, ultimately, I think there is enough interesting material elsewhere for this plot to work. In season 3, I imagine that Dany and Jaime's storylines were the highlights for a lot of viewers. In season 4, King's Landing will take that spot, and the Battle at the Wall will surely be impressive, so Dany's story can take more of a back seat. (And I think this needs repeating in every post: it will still be better than Dany's material in season 2.)

I have to say, I agree 100% with PatrickStormborn about how Dany's next season should be (now that doesn't mean that's what D+D will do)

[Xasthur]

Regarding the deleted scene:

I can see why this was deleted. I would really like to see a scene between Pycelle and Tywin but this one...

- Tywin goes fishing?? Really? Dressed in black with the shirt half open?? Tywin is not Putin

- Pycelle is not a complete idiot

- Tywins clothes look too modern, he looks like he basicly just came out of the King's Landing's local Armani shop

- While I like the nods to the sigils of the houses with Tywin killing their animals, there is just no trout in the sea

[I hate Dorn]

Did anyone else get really uncomfortable, when George's throat got dry, and he starting gagging a bit?

Anything that makes me think about that guys health, scares the crap out of me

[Kittykatknits]

Great post

I'd love it if her season 4 arc played out like this. Sadly, with D&D at the helm, I'm guessing there is a good chance it won't.

And the panel discussion was pretty uninteresting. Although Kit's line might mean they actually do something at the wall. Finally. Getting rather sick of KL.

[Shadow on the Wall]

As described by Patrick Stormborn, there's no reason why Season 4's Meereen can't be more interesting than Season 2's Qarth for Dany. Especially if they have Barristan do the duel as well as go through the sewers with Jorah. The tension between the various characters should be enough to stretch out for a season as long as Dany doesn't get huge amounts of screen time.

Jon Snow's story is where the season will be judged though. Kings Landing has been consistently excellent every season, and I expect it to be better than ever. But Jon's storyline has never really taken off and it really needs to this season. I really hope the scripts are better and Kit Harrington can elevate his performance to the next level. I think the return of Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt will really help in that regard as they provide good foils for Jon's heroism. If Neil Marshall can finish the battle with epic style, Jon may become a fan favourite (like he is in the books).

[protar]

It's not a vague recollection; WIC posted that they had heard Morocco will not continue to be used in production. It may just be a rumour, but their sources are usually accurate and this also fits with what we know about Emilia Clarke's schedule (she begins filming in September) and the use of Split in Croatia (which will include a desert scene). It's possible, of course, that they're using a different location for Yunkai... But the climate of Split is very different to that of Morocco, so it seems unlikely to me.

Well you said you seemed to remember that WiC had posted that and didn't give any source. So to me it looked like you were stating something you weren't sure of. And in any case I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. In all likelyhood Meereen will be in however I don't think the conquest will last the entire season.

It will make a huge difference, regardless of how much attention D&D put into strategy. Yunkai was relatively easy for Dany to beat because they were unprepared and because - in show canon - Daario Naharis gave her the Second Sons (in the books the victory - which is the lack of casualties on her side, basically - was hers, but that's another topic). The Unsullied at the TWOP forum are aware of this and are unhappy with Dany's story. Compared to the Lannisters, her Slaver's Bay antagonists were very easy to defeat (which is, obviously, the point).

But Meereen is different. The Meereenese are prepared for her (this should be easy to demonstrate if done correctly); the city is bigger and stronger than Astapor and Yunkai; they've scorched the earth and left her vulnerable; and they even taunt Daenerys with crucified children and then the Champion. This time, unlike with the Yunkish, Dany does not hold all the cards. Not just because they're a serious threat and could actually beat her, but because she needs to take Meereen to keep her followers alive. This puts Dany in a very different place than season three. She's one of the most powerful and influential figures in Essos at this point, but she's still relatively powerless. This is the point where Dany begins to slip away and lose herself.

I'm sorry but despite the more gruesome back drop of Dany's conquest of Meereen, the fact remains that just like with Yunkai she manages to take Meereen with no losses or setbacks. It's repetitive. If they're stretching Dany's conquest over an entire season, the only way they could alleviate any repetitiveness would be to invent a major setback for Dany. And I think that if there's one thing we can agree on it's that D+D have a poor track record with improvising new material.

And then on top of that there is plenty of personal drama to work with. Sure, it probably won't be as interesting as season 3 (partly because the "Dracarys" scene is the highlight of her story until she rides Drogon), but I'm not sure it will be as unpopular as you suggest... And I think it's fair to say it will be far more popular than if Dany starts ruling one of the cities (the only reason I think that will work in season 5 is because Tyrion et al. are travelling to Dany and because of Daznak's Pit).

And I've said it before that this personal drama can still remain intact in my version of events.

And I never claimed it would be incredibly unpopular, just that it would be seen as fairly average and mediocre. And as I think that Dany's conquest of Yunkai was already rather mediocre compared to her time in Astapor I really don't want the same type of material stretched over twice as long.

I think that Dany ruling over a city will be much better received than Dany taking one again and here's why: One of the main things that the Unsullied Viewers are waiting on is Dany getting to Westeros. So giving Dany a change of setting at least gives the illusion that she's one step closer to getting there. She's learned how to be a conquerer, now she's learning to rule. Rather than she learned how to be a conquerer, now she's going to learn some more. And then she'll learn how to rule. You're taking twice as long to move onto the next step of Dany's development which is going to grate on people. Giving Dany a change of circumstances at the very least gives the illusion of progression even if in actuality she's still a way away from Westeros.

But, ultimately, I think there is enough interesting material elsewhere for this plot to work. In season 3, I imagine that Dany and Jaime's storylines were the highlights for a lot of viewers. In season 4, King's Landing will take that spot, and the Battle at the Wall will surely be impressive, so Dany's story can take more of a back seat. (And I think this needs repeating in every post: it will still be better than Dany's material in season 2.)

You're right that Dany will likely take more of a back seat in S4. However that's no reason for mediocrity imo. All the arcs should be as good as they can possibly be. When the less important arcs aren't up to par it can really mar the entire season. Jon's arc this season is probably a good example. He wasn't front and centre but because of the sheer averageness of his material the whole season was dragged down.

I'd do Dany's arc something like this:

• E1: Establishing Meereen as the enemy. Crucified kids.
  
• E2: Meeting with Meereenese nobles, Hizdahr, Green Grace and Skahaz. Jorah kisses Dany?
  
• E3: Absent for PW.
  
• E4: Strategy of the sewers (if not too repetitive.) and reveal of Jorah's betrayal.
  
• E5: Taking of Meereen, Dany exiles Jorah and decides to rule as Queen.
  
• E6: Absent
  
• E7: Sons of the Harpy attack. Petitions to reopen the Fighting Pits.
  
• E8: Green Grace suggests marrying Hizdahr to soothe the Meereenese.
  
• E9: Absent for Battle at the Wall
  
• E10: Major Harpy attack, perhaps killing Greyworm? Dany agrees to marry Hizdahr if he can guarantee 90 days of peace.
  

[boojam]

I'd do Dany's arc something like this:

• E1: Establishing Meereen as the enemy. Crucified kids.
  
• E2: Meeting with Meereenese nobles, Hizdahr, Green Grace and Skahaz. Jorah kisses Dany?
  
• E3: Absent for PW.
  
• E4: Strategy of the sewers (if not too repetitive.) and reveal of Jorah's betrayal.
  
• E5: Taking of Meereen, Dany exiles Jorah and decides to rule as Queen.
  
• E6: Absent
  
• E7: Sons of the Harpy attack. Petitions to reopen the Fighting Pits.
  
• E8: Green Grace suggests marrying Hizdahr to soothe the Meereenese.
  
• E9: Absent for Battle at the Wall
  
• E10: Major Harpy attack, perhaps killing Greyworm? Dany agrees to marry Hizdahr if he can guarantee 90 days of peace.
  

Whew! If Emilia wins an Emmy (not likely I know)(or even an Emmy nominee) absent for three episodes, I can't see HBO being happy with that, or even D and D who like her almost as much as Peter.

Can't figure what E6 would be so as she is not there.

I gonna guess, that like the RW, the PW will be last 10 or 15 min. of E3 or E4.

Setting up and doing th RW could have taken more than half of E9 and they did not do that.

I don't really count Arya's story preceding her presence at The Twins as RW story.

[Padraig]

I'm always more than a little doubtful when somebody suggests a plotline which races ahead of the other plotlines in the books. It might happen but I doubt it.

S3 was about Dany conquering. I imagine S4 will be about Dany facing the consequences of conquering, as things get difficult again for her . We'll see that very early on with the execution of children.

The producers have talked about trying to envision an arc for the major characters in every season and I have to say, Dany's decision to rule seems the obvious ending of any arc/season. Now this doesn't mean that none of aDwD may appear in S4. It may. Dany just has to decide to rule slightly later than she does in aSoS. At the same time, I don't think we'll get all the way to her agreement to marriage. Not even close to that.

I'm fine with some of D&D's improvisations but you can't be sure what you're going to get. :)

[protar]

Whew! If Emilia wins an Emmy (not likely I know)(or even an Emmy nominee) absent for three episodes, I can't see HBO being happy with that, or even D and D who like her almost as much as Peter.

Can't figure what E6 would be so as she is not there.

I gonna guess, that like the RW, the PW will be last 10 or 15 min. of E3 or E4.

Setting up and doing th RW could have taken more than half of E9 and they did not do that.

I don't really count Arya's story preceding her presence at The Twins as RW story.

If Dany is indeed taking a back seat next season, 7 episodes sounds about right for her. I had her absent from the PW because while I don't believe it will need too much screen time I do think that it should be a Westeros central episode. Dany didn't fit in the RW episode and won't fit in the PW episode either imo.

[boojam]

I'm always more than a little doubtful when somebody suggests a plotline which races ahead of the other plotlines in the books. It might happen but I doubt it.

That's right on, I don't know how many posts I saw scheduling the PW for season 3.

It's not easy to get on D and D's wavelength , but those that said , no, it will be season 4.

They were right.

[Shadow on the Wall]

If Dany starts ruling midway through Season 4, her plot is going to be very boring come Season 5 imo. Even if they blast through AFFC and ADWD material in double time, that would still mean Dany being tied up with Meereen at the end of Season 5, and that's bound to wear on the tv audience just like it did book readers.

At the end of the day, the problem faced is that the upcoming material for Dany is fairly weak. While she hasn't got much ASOS story left, what is left is good, and may have to be milked for what it's worth.

[protar]

If Dany starts ruling midway through Season 4, her plot is going to be very boring come Season 5 imo. Even if they blast through AFFC and ADWD material in double time, that would still mean Dany being tied up with Meereen at the end of Season 5, and that's bound to wear on the tv audience just like it did book readers.

At the end of the day, the problem faced is that the upcoming material for Dany is fairly weak. While she hasn't got much ASOS story left, what is left is good, and may have to be milked for what it's worth.

It doesn't mean that at all:

• S4 part 1: Taking Meereen
  
• S4 part 2: Ruling Meereen
  
• S5 part 1: Ruling Meereen, takes off on Drogon
  
• S5 part 2: build-up and Battle of Fire
  
• S6: Travelling to Westeros
  

[boojam]

It doesn't mean that at all:

• S4 part 1: Taking Meereen
  
• S4 part 2: Ruling Meereen
  
• S5 part 1: Ruling Meereen, takes off on Drogon
  
• S5 part 2: build-up and Battle of Fire
  
• S6: Travelling to Westeros
  

'Battle of Fire'.... hmmm ... my guess that would be Mother of All Dust Ups with the Others on Westeros.... of course never try to out guess GRRM!

I had this crazy vision in my head that Dany brings a Khalasar (Khalsars?) from the land side, Barristan Selmy (somehow in touch with Dany) prepares the Unsullied for an assault.

The siege armies seeing the upcoming pincers movement, run away! (Or at least all the sell swords.) No land battle happens.

(Kind of droll , a?, right up George's alley!)

Before, during or after, big sea battle (we have not had one yet) Victarion's fleet smashes the blockage of Meereen.

The horns stuff can wait.

Dany may link with Tyrion before or after the broken siege.

Then god-knows-what happens.

(Or! none of the above.)

[protar]

'Battle of Fire'.... hmmm ... my guess that would be Mother of All Dust Ups with the Others on Westeros.... of course never try to out guess GRRM!

I had this crazy vision in my head that Dany brings a Khalasar (Khalsars?) from the land side, Barristan Selmy (somehow in touch with Dany) prepares the Unsullied for an assault.

The siege armies seeing the upcoming pincers movement, run away! (Or at least all the sell swords.) No land battle happens.

(Kind of droll , a?, right up George's alley!)

Before, during or after, big sea battle (we have not had one yet) Victarion's fleet smashes the blockage of Meereen.

The horns stuff can wait.

Dany may link with Tyrion before or after the broken siege.

Then god-knows-what happens.

(Or! none of the above.)

The Battle of Fire is the battle that's going to take place towards the start of TWOW:

TWOW spoilers:

It doesn't really happen like that. Barristan engages the undisciplined Yunkish forces whilst Victarion captures ships from the Volantene fleet and sweeps in to fight the Yunkish as well. Meanwhile Tyrion is persuading the Second Sons to switch sides.