why the HBO show 'MIGHT' have f****d up

[Daske]

Well, I, like the Minbari, approach with gun ports open as a sign of trust and peaceful intentions. :fencing:

Haha, well good job that never had any unfortunate consequences!

[The Drunkard]

A lot of fans tie themselves in knots over D&D's choices purely because they are not in line with their own interpretation of the character. Particularly Stannis, who so many seem to be obsessed with to the point where it just becomes worrying and makes me like a very enjoyable character a little less.

The things that I take issue with have little or nothing to do with character interpretation, just solid events that got changed (and even reversed) to the detriment of the character.

In the books Stannis never burnt anyone for believing in different gods, on the show he took the role of Selyse and starting sacrificing prisoners. In the books Stannis is, initially, adamantly against burning Edric, on the show he's instantly ready. In the books Stannis is the one to test Melisandre with the leeches, on the show Stannis only does so after Davos convinces him to. In the books Stannis only prepares to burn Edric after all three kings have died, on the show he's ready after one. In the books Melisandre knows that the AA battle will take place to the north, on the show she only seems to realize that after Davos gives her the letter (at which point Stannis will prepare to go, lining up with Melisandre telling him where the true battle is, rather than Davos reminding him of his duty). They cut the line about him threatening Melisandre with a slow death if she was lying. They changed his first meeting with Davos from him smiling and saying how he had missed him to him being an uncaring asshole. They cut the line about him seeing his own crown burn him to death in a vision.

And there was that stupid beach scene.

I get that changes need to be made and that things need to be cut for them to make the story work, yet with Stannis this season it always seems to be to his detriment. The only odd case is episode 5 and his interaction with Selyse and Shireen, which I don't think was terribly in character anyway, but at least it wasn't deliberately changing events to cast him in a negative light.

I'm hoping this is just the unsubtle HBO hammer slamming him down to new lows to make his 'rise' seem more pronounced. But who knows...

Apparently he's burning

even more people next season. Jesus.

[Mr Fixit]

I think this is a danger with viewers, I know I felt it with the books too. Usually you never quite get invested as much in the newer characters if the original ones are killed or replaced (the Narnia books were a rude awakening many many years ago).

True. This is one of the main problems many readers experienced while reading AFfC. Who the hell are these people? Out of twelve POV characters in that book, only two were the original ones from the first book -- 6 chapters out of 45, I think. It really pissed people off. Not me, mind you, but I understand the sentiment.

[aFeastForDragons]

Generally, I have no problem with D&D's adaptation, but I find show Stannis rather boring. As more of the good actors get killed off and Stannis has to carry more, proportionately, of the weight of the show, this could become a problem.

Do the writers not realise him, Jon and Dany are the three main characters in ADWD. Nearly every chapter revolve arounds them. Most of the characters they've given inflated roles to will be gone in a few seasons. They've butchered Stan's character but hopefully they give him his moment at the end of the season.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Do the writers not realise him, Jon and Dany are the three main characters in ADWD. Nearly every chapter revolve arounds them. Most of the characters they've given inflated roles to will be gone in a few seasons. They've butchered Stan's character but hopefully they give him his moment at the end of the season.

I am not that optimistic

They were some burnings at DS, according to the leaked photos, so it will come off that due to those burnings Stannis wins and the butchery continues.

[Mr Fixit]

Do the writers not realise him, Jon and Dany are the three main characters in ADWD. Nearly every chapter revolve arounds them. Most of the characters they've given inflated roles to will be gone in a few seasons. They've butchered Stan's character but hopefully they give him his moment at the end of the season.

Stannis wasn't, isn't, and never will be one of the main character of the book series. The sooner fans realise it, the better. The guy doesn't even have PoV status, for Seven's sake!

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Stannis wasn't, isn't, and never will be one of the main character of the book series. The sooner fans realise it, the better. The guy doesn't even have PoV, for Seven's sake!

Oh ok then. Guess we are just stupid for rooting for Stannis while you clearly are smart because you have figured out everything. Good on ya mate!

[The Drunkard]

Stannis wasn't, isn't, and never will be one of the main character of the book series. The sooner fans realise it, the better. The guy doesn't even have PoV status, for Seven's sake!

He said ADWD, not the series, because a great many chapters involve Stannis in one way or another. He's not wrong, Stannis takes a far larger role in that book than he had before, becoming a pivotal character concerning all the events in the North.

[Mr Fixit]

He said ADWD, not the series, because a great many chapters involve Stannis in one way or another. He's not wrong, Stannis takes a far larger role in that book than he had before, becoming a pivotal character concerning all the events in the North.

Yeah, I think Stannis isn't the protagonist of ADwD either. It's just that people want so badly to see the Starks avanged and Stannis seems he's on path to achieve that, at least partially. But he isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.

[The Drunkard]

Yeah, I think Stannis isn't the protagonist of ADwD either. It's just that people want so badly to see the Starks avanged and Stannis seems he's on path to achieve that, at least partially. But he isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.

He didn't say Stannis was the protagonist, he said he was one of the three main characters. And going on content alone, which seems to be the intent of his post, he's not wrong. Practically every chapter concerning the North involves Stannis in some capacity, whether that be dealing with him directly like in Asha's or Jon's chapters, or indirectly in Davos' and Theon's chapters. To suggest he isn't an important character here seems delusional, his presence in the North is shaping the storyline. He's the reason the events in Winterfell are unfolding, why Rickon will be retrieved, why the Iron Bank will get involved, why the wildlings were let past the Wall and why Jon is coming under such fire from the Boltons.

[Mr Fixit]

He didn't say Stannis was the protagonist, he said he was one of the three main characters.

Protagonist and main character are synonyms. Not sure what you're getting at. Anyway, I never said Stannis wasn't important, I said he wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Littlefinger is important, Drogo was important, Tyrells are important.

But he most certainly isn't one of the three main characters of ADwD, as a poster above claims.

[Mr Fixit]

Oh ok then. Guess we are just stupid for rooting for Stannis while you clearly are smart because you have figured out everything. Good on ya mate!

Thanks!

[The Drunkard]

Protagonist and main character are synonyms. Not sure what you're getting at. Anyway, I never said Stannis wasn't important, I said he wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Littlefinger is important, Drogo was important, Tyrells are very important.

But he most certainly isn't one the three main characters of ADwD, as a poster above claims.

Protagonist and main character are not necessarily the same thing, but that wasn't the point. He isn't the protagonist, he is one of three main characters in terms of content. The original post you were responding to was talking about the content those characters were involved in during ADWD, of which Stannis was definitely one of the most prominent. Whilst his arc on Dragonstone can arguably be seen as one of relatively minor influence on the rest of the story, to say the same after he's arrived in the North is silly, for more than the reasons I listed earlier.

[Mr Fixit]

Protagonist and main character are not necessarily the same thing, but that wasn't the point. He isn't the protagonist, he is one of three main characters in terms of content. The original post you were responding to was talking about the content those characters were involved in during ADWD, of which Stannis was definitely one of the most prominent. Whilst his arc on Dragonstone can arguably be seen as one of relatively minor influence on the rest of the story, to say the same after he's arrived in the North is silly, for more than the reasons I listed earlier.

I was looking at the entirety of that poster's quote, which was:

Do the writers not realise him, Jon and Dany are the three main characters in ADWD. Nearly every chapter revolve arounds them. Most of the characters they've given inflated roles to will be gone in a few seasons. They've butchered Stan's character but hopefully they give him his moment at the end of the season.

This implies that Stannis is held to a different standard. What are the characters that were given inflated roles at the expense of Stannis? The ones most talked about as having been fillered-up on these boards regarding Season 3 are Tyrion, Tyrells, and Theon, and they are all alive and well in Dance.

[The Drunkard]

I was looking at the entirety of that poster's quote, which was:

Do the writers not realise him, Jon and Dany are the three main characters in ADWD. Nearly every chapter revolve arounds them. Most of the characters they've given inflated roles to will be gone in a few seasons. They've butchered Stan's character but hopefully they give him his moment at the end of the season.

This implies that Stannis is held to a different standard. What are the characters that were given inflated roles at the expense of Stannis? The ones most talked about as having been fillered-up on these boards regarding Season 3 are Tyrion, Tyrells, and Theon, and they are all alive and well in Dance.

If that was what you wanted to say then perhaps you should have said it, rather than giving a one liner on how silly fans need to realize Stannis wasn't one of the series' main characters, which was what I was responding to.

[Mr Fixit]

If that was what you wanted to say then perhaps you should have said it, rather than giving a one liner on how silly fans need to realize Stannis wasn't one of the series' main characters, which was what I was responding to.

Frankly, fans do need to realise that Stannis isn't one of the main characters. That goes hand in hand with notions about who the main characters are in the long run, who will and who won't be around etc.

Look, I like Stannis, I really enjoy reading about him. I want him to kick Bolton ass as much as anyone else. But I don't think the guy is all that central in the long run, he's a catalyst for further developments.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Perhaps Stannis is being portrayed as more villainous than in the novels, because his ultimate role will end up being antagonistic. Personally, I subscribe to the theory that Stannis will be the new Night's King, and he will lead the White Walkers south to punish all those who denied his claim (though I can see his character genuinely approaching a more heroic persona prior to his ultimate fall). That said, I was never much of a fan of his character until the latter parts of ASoS, and actually think that his conflict has been made more interesting by clearly delineating Davos and Melisandre as two different spectrum's of what Stannis is capable of and what he may become. His scene with Davos in Second Sons makes this internal conflict quite clear, and frames his decisions and lust for power against his better nature quite clearly and succinctly. These next two seasons should be relatively Stannis heavy (compared to the second and third seasons), so we'll get a better idea of what his character is about and where he's headed going forward (as was the case in the books, to my eyes).

To me, this is just another example of a character being given a more traditional arc, in terms of how the television medium operates. Similar to Arya, who had been singled out as a character who was taken in the opposite direction - softened - until a time where her transition made more external sense (seeing as we have no internal monologue's on the show). Killing some random soldiers while trying to escape Harrenhal may have made perfect sense in the books, but for a TV show, the moment would have been dramatically inert. Moving that moment to after the Red Wedding provides context for her actions that a non-reader can clearly understand, and puts the character back in line with her book counterpart. Tyrion, no doubt, will see a similar transition this season, as the bitterness and unfairness of his situation weigh on his spirit.

The show isn't even finished with ASoS, and yet many readers like to use their knowledge of the five released books to make a final judgement on how his character has been adapted and portrayed. I still remember a number of posters saying that they were going to bungle Jaime's redemption after he killed Alton Lannister in season two, and look at how that turned out... Give it time. We all know that this fourth season will be the biggest yet for Stannis, so it would make sense for the writers to hold back on clearly defining which part of Stannis' nature will win the day in the end (at least for a little while).

[Annara Snow]

Do the writers not realise him, Jon and Dany are the three main characters in ADWD. Nearly every chapter revolve arounds them. Most of the characters they've given inflated roles to will be gone in a few seasons. They've butchered Stan's character but hopefully they give him his moment at the end of the season.

Say what? Did you confuse Stannis with Tyrion? Or Theon, or any of the people with multiple POV chapters? Stannis has zero POV chapters in the series. Do you realize that he's not one of the main characters? Being a king doesn't make you the protagonist. A lot of events in book 1 revolved around Robert, but he still wasn't one of the main characters.

[Ser Tahu]

Protagonist != Main Character != PoV Character. Stannis, Petyr and Doran are all main characters but they aren't PoV characters. Joffrey, Hizdahr and Ramsay are main characters but they most definitely aren't protagonists. Cersei is by no means a protagonist but she is a PoV character. Aero Hotah is a PoV character but it would be a stretch to call him a main character or a protagonist. In fact for the most part the reason he exists seems to be to act as Doran's PoV and his pawn.

[Annara Snow]

Protagonist != Main Character != PoV Character. Stannis, Petyr and Doran are all main characters but they aren't PoV characters. Joffrey, Hizdahr and Ramsay are main characters but they most definitely aren't protagonists. Cersei is by no means a protagonist but she is a PoV character. Aero Hotah is a PoV character but it would be a stretch to call him a main character or a protagonist. In fact for the most part the reason he exists seems to be to act as Doran's PoV and his pawn.

Neither Stannis, nor Petyr, nor Doran, nor Joffrey nor Ramsey nor Hizdahr are among the series' 10 main characters (let's pick that number), nor are they among the 3 main characters in any of the books.

I never said that every POV character is a main character, but those with 15+ POV chapters happen to be; and when the POV chapters are telling someone's story, they are the main character. Areo Hoteh's chapters are telling the story of other Dornish characters (but it's still not big enough for Doran or Arianne to be among the top 3 main characters in AFFC or ADWD). But Ned's chapters in AGOT do not tell Robert's story, but Ned's. Sansa's chapters do not tell Joffrey''s story or LF's story, they tell Sansa's story. Theon's chapters do not tell Ramsey's story, but Theon's story.