Soccer XLVI: The Rumour Mill Keeps Spinning

[Alex.]

I think there's certainly an argument to be made that he owes them some extra loyalty because of the way they've stood by him and defended him in the face of two frankly indefensible incidents.

That's the clubs's problem though, surely? Defending racism is above and beyond the call of duty, yeah, but they didn't have to do that. He gave them extra loyalty as well, by sticking around for another season after the racism thing.

[Castel]

Annoying or not, if it's written into the man's contract that he can leave for a Champion's League club then no, Liverpool aren't going about things in the "right" way. You're talking like he's some sort of ungrateful indentured servant whilst forgetting that the only reason you finished anywhere near the European spots last season was because of him. The man is obviously a cock on a personal level, but it doesn't sound like he's too far into the wrong (this time).

If it was wouldn't he be gone? It just seems that Suarez has some terrible people working for him. What the fuck is the point of a "must negotiate" clause?

I don't know. If it's just a negotiation clause as Liverpool claim I find it hard to take sides here. All the sentimental arguments that are natural to football aside, everyone is duking it out to further their own interests.

I think there's certainly an argument to be made that he owes them some extra loyalty because of the way they've stood by him and defended him in the face of two frankly indefensible incidents.

And an argument can be made (and it was made by Suarez himself) that Liverpool did that for their own reasons, and Suarez held up his end.

[Top Notch Balanter]

Technically you just contradicted yourself by 1st saying that Suarez was doing a decent thing by not mentioning the clause so Liverpool could get big money and then by saying that you can't expect any decency from him. The one thing that has really gone against Suarez is the Bale saga. Had Madrid made Suarez 1st choice he would probably be gone now and Liverpool would be 50 million richer. However seeing as Madrid have bid ridiculous money for Bale, Rodgers can now rightly come out and say Suarez is worth much more than 40 million seeing as Bale is certainly not twice the player Suarez is. This is probably the reason why Suarez has gone public with his clause in order to try and force a way out of the club

[Alex.]

I was dealing in conjecture and maybes with that first part. I wasn't saying that was definitely the reason. It more thank likely is not the reason.

The second part about not being able to expect decency out of a racist or expect sensible decisions from the club who supported him is the main takeaway from that post.

JUSTICE 4 LUIS

[polishgenius]

That's the clubs's problem though, surely? Defending racism is above and beyond the call of duty, yeah, but they didn't have to do that. He gave them extra loyalty as well, by sticking around for another season after the racism thing.

Yeah, but he then damaged them again this season. Presumably they agreed to let him go this summer on the basis that he give his full efforts throughout this one, which he failed to do when he bit an opponent (He also got ten yellow cards, the joint most and more than any other forward, which would have been two extra games off). Yeah, they don't really have a leg to stand on, but neither does he. Both sides come out looking bad here.

I honestly don't really get what Arsenal are doing getting involved. They're not that desperate for a goalscorer and if they were gonna go for one, surely they'd be better off going for a deadeye finisher? Especially since, though Suarez is much better all round than a lot of those, creativity isn't something Arsenal are lacking at all so he doesn't improve them much there.

However seeing as Madrid have bid ridiculous money for Bale, Rodgers can now rightly come out and say Suarez is worth much more than 40 million seeing as Bale is certainly not twice the player Suarez is.

You know it doesn't work like that, right? A player is worth what someone is willing to pay for them. And it's pretty clear that Madrid are going crazy money for Bale because of club politics and PR, not because they think Bale is really worth it.

[Rorshach]

Polish will probably be happy with this.

I think (hope) everyone at Everton has been expecting it, and that we have a plan about our next move.

Then again, this is Everton we're talking about

[Alex.]

Yeah, but he then damaged them again this season. Presumably they agreed to let him go this summer on the basis that he give his full efforts throughout this one, which he failed to do when he bit an opponent (He also got ten yellow cards, the joint most and more than any other forward, which would have been two extra games off). Yeah, they don't really have a leg to stand on, but neither does he. Both sides come out looking bad here.

I honestly don't really get what Arsenal are doing getting involved. They're not that desperate for a goalscorer and if they were gonna go for one, surely they'd be better off going for a deadeye finisher? Especially since, though Suarez is much better all round than a lot of those, creativity isn't something Arsenal are lacking at all so he doesn't improve them much there.

That's the crux of what I was trying to get across. Liverpool aren't some wronged party. It goes both ways innit

[Alcibiades]

Well, if Liverpool get rid, at least they won't have to wait out the rest of that suspension. They could get someone new and try to hit the ground running.

[Inigima]

Alci: do you reckon our odds tonight at < 0%, 0%, or > 0%?

[baxus]

Suarez doesn't actually owe Liverpool anything, especially if he was told he could leave.

that he doesn't owe liverpool anything is not a good enough reason for behaving this way.

he and his people have been at it for months now trying to bully liverpool into selling him through various media and that is most definitely NOT a proper way to do things.

IF his contract says liverpool has to sell him for every bid over 40 million pounds then liverpool has to sell him since arsenal offered one pound over that.

since he hasn't yet taken a picture in arsenal's shirt, i'm guessing that's just a wishful thinking on his part and that liverpool's well within his rights to hold until they receive a satisfactory offer.

one more thing, he can hand in a transfer request at all times and finish this whole saga.

When Suarez first declared he wanted to leave he said it was to get away from England as the press were treating him unfairly yet when Arsenal decide to put in a bid for him he seems quite happy to stay in England with the cruel media. You must know how annoying this is to a Liverpool fan seeing Suarez's actions. I wouldn't mind as much if it was Madrid or Bayern or even if City were going for him but the fact that it's a team like Arsenal a team who aren't going to be challenging for squat next season and may not even retain their Champions League status

Well, without wanting to fall too far down the Scouse rabbit hole, especially bearing in mind that this has been debated ad infinitum recently, Arsenal are going to be challenging for more trophies than Liverpool and are more than likely to be in the Champion's League this coming year. Especially if they buy Suarez. It's just a bit of a sulk really, isn't it?

Annoying or not, if it's written into the man's contract that he can leave for a Champion's League club then no, Liverpool aren't going about things in the "right" way. You're talking like he's some sort of ungrateful indentured servant whilst forgetting that the only reason you finished anywhere near the European spots last season was because of him. The man is obviously a cock on a personal level, but it doesn't sound like he's too far into the wrong (this time).

they have been "challenging for more trophies than liverpool" for nearly a decade now and have won less trophies than liverpool over that period ;)

also, that's a big IF about contract stating he can leave for champions' league club.

IF that were the case, that still wouldn't mean liverpool should sell him for less than they think he's worth.

IF that were the case, arsenal is still yet to qualify for champions' league (a formality probably, but still)

IF that were the case, liverpool would have sell him since they'd be in a breach of contract otherwise and since they are not yet presenting their case in front of the league, f.a., sports court or whoever is in charge of this kind of stuff, i'm guessing their lawyers know what they put in the contract and suarez is just whining for attention and special treatment.

[Castel]

IF his contract says liverpool has to sell him for every bid over 40 million pounds then liverpool has to sell him since arsenal offered one pound over that.

since he hasn't yet taken a picture in arsenal's shirt, i'm guessing that's just a wishful thinking on his part and that liverpool's well within his rights to hold until they receive a satisfactory offer.

Perhaps Suarez believes that Liverpool have betrayed the spirit of the arrangement?

[baxus]

Perhaps Suarez believes that Liverpool have betrayed the spirit of the arrangement?

well, suarez could've perceived the spirit of the arrangement to be "make luis suarez happy in ever imaginable way"

that's why there is the letter of the agreement so that there is no confusion afterwards.

[Castel]

well, suarez could've perceived the spirit of the arrangement to be "make luis suarez happy in ever imaginable way"

that's why there is the letter of the agreement so that there is no confusion afterwards.

Meh. If Suarez thought the contract meant one thing and Liverpool let him believe it or made false promises I can understand his anger, though he should probably fire everyone who looked at his contract if it's simply a matter of bad negotiation.

If we want to say "stick to the letter of the law and fuck the spirit" though then fine. Suarez will do everything he legally can to leave, Liverpool will do everything they can to get something out of this, all those nice arguments about X owing Y something be damned.

Of course, Suarez could simply be a self-serving bastard making this up now for his own purposes so...y'know.

[Alex.]

Bax - Yeah, it's all conjecture at the moment. My point was that Liverpool aren't some bastion of truth and its not this one sided thing. Club, player and fans are all sulking and acting like babies.

I'd rather play in the Champion's League every year than win the League Cup though eh

that's why there is the letter of the agreement so that there is no confusion afterwards.

ha, unless the letter is ambiguous! :)

[Alcibiades]

Alci: do you reckon our odds tonight at < 0%, 0%, or > 0%?

I'd feel a lot better about it if it were at home. All three of DC United's wins this year have been at home. And it's tough to feel good about it so recently after getting spanked at Toyota Park. However, the team have been improving I think, and the new members have had a chance to come together a bit. DeRo is fit for a change. I'm not going to say that I'm feeling an upset is in the cards, but United have absolutely nothing left to play for except this game.

[Alex.]

I started a new thread before it gets locked...