Acky Deshwanee Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hi,He's going a bit overboard if you ask me...Just in the first 2 books:- Bran and Rikon- Arya- JaimeYou start to just believe they will show up again!Do you think he's sloppy in any other ways?Acky D x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hi,He's going a bit overboard if you ask me...Just ibn the first 2 books:- Bran and Rikon- Arya- JaimeYou start to just believe they will show up again!Do you think he's sloppy in any other ways?Acky D xI think its sloppy readers, not sloppy writing.There aren't very many faked deaths really, all things considered.What we do have is a theme where identity is only what other people know, which usually means 'not very much' given the level of technology and information exchange, so identity is easily transfered by those who wish to do so. Which threatens every foundation of society built on relationships and memberships of various 'groups' (families, houses, organisations, feudal structures, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Of course he does. Way too much. There's a reason why nobody believes Jon is dead, that Davos died in AFFC, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruella Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 At this point yes. It happens too often, just like disfiguring a character. Although some readers managed to believe that he'd kill Arya after RW, or back when Yoren was clearly cutting off her hair, or when Davos was so obviously still alive.Well, writers are prone to overusing that shtick or other, especially in huge books like this, it's hard not to fall on what your writerly instincts tell you. But I hope he'll notice the pattern and starts using this twist less often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind it much, most people are just falling for them way too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamiShikkaku Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't think the readers were even supposed to think that Davos died in AFFC. We were just supposed to think that that's what was communicated to King's Landing.He even says at the end of AFFC that we'll find out what Davos is up to in ADWD. (Of course, it could be interpreted as "Find out how exactly Davos died!", but come on...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Ramsay Snow Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The only characters who have died in their own POV chapters besides prologues and epilogues are Catelyn and Quentyn Martell. The first of which has been resurrected and the second of which actually died 3 days later. That's what made it so hard to believe a lot of the fake deaths of POV characters in both Feast and Dance. Brienne gets two for instance, right next to each other. Asha gets one which I didn't believe at all, Davos gets an almost death in every book he's in as does Tyrion.In the first three books, I genuinely believed it and it was a good way of keeping the reader in suspense (i.e. Arya in ASOS) but now it has just gotten a bit stale for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acky Deshwanee Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 I think its sloppy readers, not sloppy writing.There aren't very many faked deaths really, all things considered.What we do have is a theme where identity is only what other people know, which usually means 'not very much' given the level of technology and information exchange, so identity is easily transfered by those who wish to do so. Which threatens every foundation of society built on relationships and memberships of various 'groups' (families, houses, organisations, feudal structures, etc).Ok yeah it's no iPhone 5 culture but still, he does it too much. It seems that more people here believe he's being OTT than are blaming the reader for being sloppy like you are.It would have better effect if he did it say 2 times before the Jon point - hardly anyone I know believes Jon is really dead. And that totally takes away the emotional impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 In an age where long distance news is measured in weeks, not seconds, misinformation is a powerful tool, so I'm not all that surprised by it. We hear of most of these "deaths" through secondary or tertiary sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Ok yeah it's no iPhone 5 culture but still, he does it too much. It seems that more people here believe he's being OTT than are blaming the reader for being sloppy like you are.It would have better effect if he did it say 2 times before the Jon point - hardly anyone I know believes Jon is really dead. And that totally takes away the emotional impact. Perhaps he didn't want his readers to think Jon was dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groat Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I think the fake deaths play into his theme and style. People have a huge problem with the resurrection being overplayed, yet it's 2 sides of the same coin. Martin is blurring the concepts of life and death, and playing with our expectations. While it does take away from the emotional impact, it serves a purpose in terms of overall theme and style.Also, the Jon Snow death is far from being concrete. There are threads daily, with opinions ranging from Jon is actually dead and will live on in ghost, Mel will resurrect Jon, Bloodraven will resurrect Jon, and Jon never died, he's just in a coma. No one knows if Jon will be UnJon, GhostJon, or what, so there's this huge mystery there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherAnduin Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Yes he does. I rolled my eyes when Jon was stabbed and Tyrion fell in the river. No one actually believed that they were dead, did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WastingSickness Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind rumors of death. You normally know which ones are genuine, even though you are kept in the dark as to what actually happened. It also leaves room for more surprises down the road. We still don't have definitive answers on the fate of Benjen Stark, Syrio Forel and Tyrek Lannister, e.g. and it leads to fun speculation.The trial-by-combat bit, now that is really getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittiz Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't consider a cliff hanger a fake death. Also you have to keep in mind the people involved in the story, many of them have good cause to do things like fake their own death, since no one tries to kill a dead person (usually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't consider those 'fake deaths', but a way to show that all information is in the perspective of the POV. If they hear someone died, why wouldn't they think them dead? If they can't find a person for months or years, why wouldn't they assume they died? It's a way to tell the reader that any of the information they gather is only from a single POV and that it isn't always the truth, even if that character believes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Jon was a cliffhanger.Davos was a fake death.But yeah it seems a bit overused at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 It's all about the money! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 POV characters don't die in their chapters, the only exception is Catelyn, and she was resurrected afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind rumors of death. You normally know which ones are genuine, even though you are kept in the dark as to what actually happened. It also leaves room for more surprises down the road. We still don't have definitive answers on the fate of Benjen Stark, Syrio Forel and Tyrek Lannister, e.g. and it leads to fun speculation.The trial-by-combat bit, now that is really getting old.LOL I knew Syrio Forel would get mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 My memory isn't super clear on AGOT and ACOK but I don't remember Jaime or Arya being faked dead... :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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