So...let's talk about Aliens...

[Spockydog]

Note the quote from Symington mentions never seeing human craft matching what he saw. But then again he didn't get a close look did he?

According to this, he got quite a good look.

In 1997, during my second term as governor of Arizona, I saw something that defied logic and challenged my reality. I witnessed a massive delta-shaped craft silently navigate over Squaw Peak, a mountain range in Phoenix, Arizona. It was truly breathtaking. I was absolutely stunned because I was turning to the west looking for the distant Phoenix Lights. To my astonishment this apparition appeared; this dramatically large, very distinctive leading edge with some enormous lights was traveling through the Arizona sky.

Whether or not this was a UFO, you have to agree that it's an interesting case. Tens of thousands of people across the state of Arizona reported seeing these lights. Were they all lying? Was this some form of spontaneous mass-hysteria? If so, what could have caused it?

[Opisthokont]

How come space seems so lonely and devoid of intelligent life?

Because in the long run advanced life can only exist at the surface of a light-speed cage:

Space, Stephen Baxter

"And then what?" Nemoto whispered. "Suppose we start colonizing, like the Gaijin. Earth is suddenly the center of a growing sphere of colonization whose volume must keep increasing at two percent a year, to keep up with the population growth. And that means that the leading edge, the colonizing wave, has to sweep on faster and faster, eating up worlds and stars and moving on to the next, because of the pressure from behind…"

Ben was doing sums in his head. "That leading edge would have to be moving at light speed within a few centuries, no more."

"Imagine how it would be," Nemoto said grimly, "to inhabit a world in the path of such a wave. The exploitation would be rapid, ruthless, merciless, burning up worlds and stars like the front of a forest fire, leaving only ruins and lifelessness. And then, as resources are exhausted throughout the light-speed cage, the crash comes, inevitably."

[Weeping Sore]

Spooky,

What's more likely an unscheduled military flight or a massive alien ship? Occam's razor is a bitch.

Scot, no known military aircraft is 1/3 mile long or capable of hovering in place in complete silence. The Phoenix Lights were witnessed by tens of thousands of people on March 13th 1997, and hundreds of video tapes were taken. This showed up on the front page of USA Today (not a great paper, but not a tabloid) at the time, which is why I got interested.

[Spockydog]

The Phoenix Lights were witnessed by tens of thousands of people on March 13th 1997, and hundreds of video tapes were taken.

No, they weren't. As far as I know, only one video exists of the lights from '97. I might be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. If so, please point me in the right direction.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I've seen the video. It looks like a pattern of flares slowly falling behind the mountain range. People may have seen something different but that is not what the camera showed.

[Weeping Sore]

According to this, he got quite a good look.

Whether or not this was a UFO, you have to agree that it's an interesting case.

Until someone identifies it, it was literally an unidentified flying object.

If it was of terrestrial origin, the only plausible explanation I can come up with is a mass psychological experiment. If it was meant to be a secret military exercise they wouldn't hang this giant V of hovering lights over a huge metropolitan area with reliably clear skies.

[Sci-2]

Whether or not this was a UFO, you have to agree that it's an interesting case. Tens of thousands of people across the state of Arizona reported seeing these lights. Were they all lying? Was this some form of spontaneous mass-hysteria? If so, what could have caused it?

Oh I agree, as a friend of mine once said spontaneous mass-hysteria is also worth examining via research.

I'm agnostic on the matter, though I'm admittedly a doubtful agnostic.

I mean, let's say I believed [it was a UFO]. What's the next step?

[Spockydog]

I mean, let's say I believed [it was a UFO]. What's the next step?

Ridicule, mockery, and perhaps a trip to a mental institution? 'Tis the world we live in...

[Sci-2]

Ridicule, mockery, and perhaps a trip to a mental institution? 'Tis the world we live in...

Well, my point is one doesn't have to believe to be interested in the ethnography of UFO culture.

There seems to be a relation between abduction and altered states, senses of lost time, and some other commonalities between abduction experiences. And people who are abducted seem to genuinely believe something happened to them.

I think all of that is worth studying.

[Pero the first of His name]

I love how the silent, futuristic craft of our alien buddies always have their GIANT FLASHING LIGHTS on when they come to visit.

Makes sense to me!

They know we like shiny objects so they attract us to stay still and watch so we are easier to beam up.

[MinDonner]

Speaking of beaming up, is anyone else disproportionately amused at how Scot keeps saying "Spooky" in defiance of both text and avatar? :D

[Weeping Sore]

No, they weren't. As far as I know, only one video exists of the lights from '97. I might be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. If so, please point me in the right direction.

All the Youtube videos seem to use the same one- but I'm seeing references to "numerous" camcorder videos. I may be mis-remembering the original USA today article (which was published June 18th, 1997 - their website wants to charge me $3.95 for the full text and I'm balking at the moment)

The 84 minute documentary The Phoenix Lights is pretty cheesily promoted and had some self-aggrandizing moments with the film-maker, but it has plenty of footage and accounts from credible witnesses (military pilots, etc.).

It's frustrating that programs like this are marketed towards "believers", but viewed critically, I think it's still possible to form an opinion.

It always seemed reasonable that life would have evolved in more than one location in the mind-boggling vastness of the universe, but I never much credited talk of "visitors", because I think the most likely response of other intelligent life to us would be total indifference or at best a passing curiosity, and contact would be unlikely unless some kind of faster-than-light travel was possible and not prohibitively resource-intensive.

Nevertheless, this Phoenix thing seems to have been more than one isolated kook making a claim, and if it was a hoax it would have to be a particularly well-coordinated hoax designed to make exactly the impression that it made.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Spocky,

I'm so sorry. See, I saw what I expected rather than what was really there.

:blush:

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Ridicule, mockery, and perhaps a trip to a mental institution? 'Tis the world we live in...

But, if you say you believe in a large white man with a long brown beard that lives in the clouds...you're perfectly sane and mentally stable. :dunno:

'Tis the world we live in...

[thecryptile]

If you see a man with a long brown beard in the clouds, you're still insane. God has a long white beard, and his son Jesus is a blue-eyed blonde, with a short blonde beard.

[Spockydog]

I'm agnostic on the matter, though I'm admittedly a doubtful agnostic. I mean, let's say I believed [it was a UFO]. What's the next step?

I’d say

is a good place to start. A fascinating examination of some of the more compelling cases of recent years, including the Phoenix Lights.

[Stubby]

Aliens are obviously real. I mean, this picture proves it.

[Sci-2]

I’d say

is a good place to start. A fascinating examination of some of the more compelling cases of recent years, including the Phoenix Lights.

I meant how should I change my life if I think there are actual visits.

Should I realign my priorities to prepare for invasion? Try to find a way to contact them?

It seems to me that believing or not believing in alien visitation largely result in the same Sci-2.

[Warg Arry]

Aliens are obviously real. I mean, this picture proves it.

This will make me smile for a looong time.

Do I think life exists outside of our solar system. - Yeah sure. I think it's possible.

Aliens visiting us.. Um I guess. I don't have any experiences. But I sure do enjoy the stories.

. It certainly gets the imagination pumping.

Also my father in law has had some experiences... He loves to tell of his UFO sightings. Which can be fun.

Anal probing? - Why the heck not. After all according to Scrubs;

. Although I haven't heard as many claims about anal probing and cow abduction as I did as a kid in the 80's. Maybe they have learnt as much as they are going to from the anal probe and our persistent diet of beef.

Fallen Angels... No. In fact it's the first I've heard of that theory. (Other than the words in that linked Vid; Extra-Dimensional Beings.)

Pyramids.. Well I wasn't there. But I don't believe so. Although the speculation of alien involvement is hugely entertaining to me.

I enjoy tales of aliens as much as ghost stories. I don't necessarily believe. And probably won't ever. Unless I have my own first hand experience. So far it's fun to think about. To talk about and speculate on. Which I think is part of our growth, natural curiosity and human qualities.

I mostly don't want it to be true though. I prefer it all to stay with in the realms of fantasy and story telling. Because I like the status quo. And I can't think of a scenario (especially given how varied the human response could be through out the world.) That the living creatures of earth would fair to well in the face of an invasion. (except for events like Sharknado. Or Dropbears.)

[Sci-2]

I enjoy tales of aliens as much as ghost stories. I don't necessarily believe. And probably won't ever. Unless I have my own first hand experience. So far it's fun to think about. To talk about and speculate on. Which I think is part of our growth, natural curiosity and human qualities.

One thing that always puzzles me - why is believing that aliens have come visit us come off as weirder than the idea that God asked some people in a small part of the world to take notes on his ideas and spread them around?

[i'm not saying either belief is wrong or worthy of derision. It's just strange to me that society accepts one more than the other.]