So You're In Love With A Controversial Character...

[Dragonstoned]

Whenever Roose Bolton is on the page I just feel dirty.

Don't know whether it's his voice or his leeches or his hippocras, or the fact he stabs people in the back, breaks oaths and kills kings while giving no shits, but despite being a self-confessed Stannis fan there is a bit of me that wants him to lose the Battle of Winterfell just so the Roose can stay loose a little longer. :wub:

[Ürglõvi]

5. Dont needlessly hate on a character!

We all have irrational hates or dislike for one character or another, but just being all "That guy sucks! UGH!!" and giving thin reasons as to why, is lame. Some characters may be exempt from this such as Gregor, Joff, or Ramsay. lol! Argue your dislike in a clear, respectable manner. Simply saying "Character is boring!" and repeating such is also pretty weak.

This! This oh so very much. Pointlessly bashing a character doesn't only irritate the other posters, it takes away all the credibility of your arguments. Being entitled to your own opinion is all well and good, but it's hard to take someone seriously when they don't even try to see past the blind hatred and offer impartial analysis. (Blind love being easier to forgive and all that. ;))

[Pinkie Baelish]

I did not expect this much discussion!

Re: cultural relativism.

I find I am much more likely to be forgiving of people following the law rather than the social norms. That is, Ned executing a deserter is Ned following the law-if he didn't, chances are he'd be up against the court himself.

A husband forcing himself on his wife (or vice versa) on the other hand is not going to win any empathy from me, see?

I'm interested to see what your thoughts are on Vic killing his wife. I don't recall the books being specific about this, but if a man was legally entitled to kill his wife for adultery in the Iron Islands, how would you feel about Vic's actions?

[Theda Baratheon]

Whenever Roose Bolton is on the page I just feel dirty.

Don't know whether it's his voice or his leeches or his hippocras, or the fact he stabs people in the back, breaks oaths and kills kings while giving no shits, but despite being a self-confessed Stannis fan there is a bit of me that wants him to lose the Battle of Winterfell just so the Roose can stay loose a little longer. :wub:

LOL. /high five!

Seriously though, he is such an ace character, I want him to hang around for as long as possible.

[Jon of the Dead]

Great thread, I've always thought this, that's why I don't take part in apologism or justifying of crimes, I just take the characters as they are.

As far as my favorites go, I know Cersei is an evil bitch, Theon is an insecure traitor, Arya is a cold killer, and Stannis is a bit of a hipocrite when he says he doesn't really want the IT.

But I don't care, I still love this lot of dwarf-killing, child-murdering, singer-stabbing, people-burning bastards.

[SeanF]

No truly objective reader of this series can read scenes involving Roose Bolton, Cersei, LF, and Varys, and not feel some degree of admiration for each of them.

[butterbumps!]

No truly objective reader of this series can read scenes involving Roose Bolton, Cersei, LF, and Varys, and not feel some degree of admiration for each of them.

hmm. As an objective reader, I'm having some difficulty locating the source for this degree of admiration for Lord Pissant. Is it his temper tantrums, horrifically unfunny jokes, ability to overpower a 14 year old girl in his whorehouse, atomic bedroom skills in bringing a mentally unstable and obsessed woman to ecstasy, finesse in poisoning a 5 year old slowly, or the masterful way he supplies pederasts with unsuspecting boys?

[SeanF]

hmm. As an objective reader, I'm having some difficulty locating the source for this degree of admiration for Lord Pissant. Is it his temper tantrums, horrifically unfunny jokes, ability to overpower a 14 year old girl in his whorehouse, atomic bedroom skills in bringing a mentally unstable and obsessed woman to ecstasy, finesse in poisoning a 5 year old slowly, or the masterful way he supplies pederasts with unsuspecting boys?

As the ending of Some Like it Hot goes "nobody's perfect!"

[bbstark]

1. Well I adore Cersei, but hey, lemme finish ;) I don't admire her, I merely enjoy observing her and that's the distinction that really matters to me personally.

I read Cersei as a descent into madness, and an amusing tale of human weakness and hubris. To me she is the female Macbeth, with very few redeeming qualities, teaching us about evil. Hers is a cautionary tale, and wether it's actually tragic, or just villainous remains to be seen. Everytime that I see the tragedy in her story, Cersei reveals something that makes it difficult for me to identify with her. Besides, tragedy is said to be the choice between two incompatible goods, and not the choice between good and evil. The only good Cersei has done so far, is try and protect her children (and yes she's terrible at that), and she's not actually conflicted about who she parenthetically runs over, while doing so. Cersei's story is the one I'm most interested in morally (except maybe Theon), to see if she'll attempt redemption even a split second before her demise.

Additionally, the manner in which she has hoisted herself in her own petard is rather brilliant. I don't think she could have done a better job entangeling herself, if she had actually tried

2. And gods, do I love Jaime! And HOW!

all defenestration aside, he might ACTUALLY be the funniest Lannister? It's a toss up, really. The Lannister siblings are rather loveable for shitz and giggles, though deeply and darkly dysfunctional.As far as I am concerned Jaime hasn't done much to redeem himself for the near-deah of Bran, yet. He also needs to face his love and devotion for Cersei and maybe contemplate if she's worthy of his love. Yeah that would be a good way to go. His decision to begin pondering what his own way would be if it were not for the influence of his family, is laudible, but Jaime's redemption arc is a long and hard path, will he make it? stay tuned!

What gets me through the night, is waiting for the moment that Jaime turns to Brienne and says

You don't have to be beautiful to turn me on

I just need your body, baby, from dusk till dawn

You don't need experience to turn me out

You just leave it all up to me, I'm gonna show you what it's all about

You don't have to be rich to be my girl

You don't have to be cool to rule my world

Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with

I just want your extra time and your kiss

[tydides]

I'd discuss Stannis but thing is he isn't really controversial. People go against him majorly as a response to his unexpectedly large fan base, and because he isn't a bubbly or happy sort of fellow so they think OMG EVIL.

S I go with Theon. Very complex guy so has done lots of stuff some of which I find justifiable.

Taking Winterfell was always a bad idea, but lets face it, Theon gets tossed into a war situation he is not ready for and is desperate to please his horrible family. Then he sees a legendary castle for the taking. What do you think he is going to do?

That's just one of the justifications.

Totally agree with the Theon thing. I sort of love him as a character, and feel bad for him as a person going through some terrible stuff. About Stannis though. If other people are not a fan of him, and others are, and they clash, then in my opinion, that makes him controversial. I like Stannis, I think deep down he is a good guy, but he does things that I find despicable (burning people, considering killing Edric Storm, and other stuff) so I don't root for him. People have different opinions about different characters, and I don't think its cool to write others off by saying they fundamentally don't understand characters because of their personality, or because they dislike the fanbase. There are characters I don't like, but if someone else likes them, I can understand.

[Ramsay B.]

but despite being a self-confessed Stannis fan there is a bit of me that wants him to lose the Battle of Winterfell just so the Roose can stay loose a little longer. :wub:

Yes! I do like Stannis but I don't want Roose to die or for his arc to end. I love creepy characters.

[Pod The Impaler]

I think most of the characters I like best are controversial in one way or another.

Arya Stark - a real killer, the true steel, with the wolf blood in her. There is much to respect about this girl, and much to fear. :ninja:

Dany - I liked her best when she goes all "angry dragon" - crucifying slavers in Meereen for the "message" they sent her with those crucified slaves, burning Miri Maaz Duur to do some instinctual blood magic, giving various people the dracarys treatment.

Tyrion - I remain a fan of Tyrion. Despite how messed up he clearly is inside, I think his better qualities may yet win out.

Littlefinger - he wins my Magnificent Bastard Award. There is so much about his scheming that makes him unique - you almost want him to win the game, because of how he stabs the game to death with its own arbitrary rules.

[Blede]

Whenever Roose Bolton is on the page I just feel dirty.

Don't know whether it's his voice or his leeches or his hippocras, or the fact he stabs people in the back, breaks oaths and kills kings while giving no shits, but despite being a self-confessed Stannis fan there is a bit of me that wants him to lose the Battle of Winterfell just so the Roose can stay loose a little longer. :wub:

Don't worry. He's not a man to be undone, ser. I seriously doubt he would allow himself to be besieged without an escape plan. The Roose will still be loose, even if he has to abandon Winterfell to keep being it !

[yolkboy]

What gets me through the night, is waiting for the moment that Jaime turns to Brienne and says

You don't have to be beautiful to turn me on

I just need your body, baby, from dusk till dawn

You don't need experience to turn me out

You just leave it all up to me, I'm gonna show you what it's all about

You don't have to be rich to be my girl

You don't have to be cool to rule my world

Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with

I just want your extra time and your kiss

Wow bbstark your poetry skills are first rate, impressive stuff. Does it come from a deep, dark place? ;)

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Jaime, Renly and Melisandre. :uhoh:

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Wow bbstark your poetry skills are first rate, impressive stuff. Does it come from a deep, dark place? ;)

So dark, so deep.

[The Great Walrus]

I also have an unreasonable love of Fat Walda. I just love how she can make Roose, a man with no semblance of love or other emotions, seem fond of her.

[bbstark]

Wow bbstark your poetry skills are first rate, impressive stuff. Does it come from a deep, dark place? ;)

I am tortured. It is known. Also pompous and windbaggy.

So dark, so deep.

how dare you? I'm appalled, mine is the Prince version!!

[yolkboy]

So dark, so deep.

I can't believe Tom Jones plagiarised bbstarks excellent romantic poetry!

[bbstark]

I can't believe Tom Jones plagiarised bbstarks excellent romantic poetry!

I'm going to sue him.

Need to put an ad out that I'm looking for legal representation. I'm going to request defenestration in lieu of a prison sentence. That seems reasonable.

I will not be plagiarised without retribution! This is unsupportable!