Why is Rhaegar seen in a postive light?

[Ser No One]

Yes, but it's intriguing (at least to me) how a totally apparently normal guy suddenly goes like "screw this I'm gonna rebel" and acts out of character

Even more considering that one of his main qualities is that he was dutiful, according to Selmy.

This is why everyone wonders what made him do it

I totally agree. Not saying he's evil, just that there is no evidence whatsoever one way or the other.

It might have been the prophecy driving him crazy... Or it might have been love driving him mad. Or it might have just been some plan him, Elia and Lyanna worked up !

I would personally be inclined to believe he's good, but there is absolutely nothing to support that he wasn't a good guy who did one crazy act.

[Nami]

The books indicate that he stopped being "normal", the moment he became focused on the prophecy.

It's never indicated he stopped being "normal" because of the prophecy.

Actually we only know he mentioned the prophecy twice: when deciding to become a warrior and Dany's vision in THOTU

And no one who was close to him mentioned anything about him being obsessed with the prophecy.

[JCx]

He's the JFK of the world, a young good looking leader who people thought would lead them to a better future. Instead he's cut down in his youth and chaos follows. So people put him on pedestal of what could have been under his leadership while ignoring his flaws. I wonder if that makes Dany RFK?

[mindchap]

It's never indicated he stopped being "normal" because of the prophecy.

Actually we only know he mentioned the prophecy twice: when deciding to become a warrior and Dany's vision in THOTU

And no one who was close to him mentioned anything about him being obsessed with the prophecy.

I think maybe that's a reference to Selmy saying that he was a bookish type until one day he found something in those books and decided he had to be a warrior.

[JeepCSC]

Given the words from others (and lacking key info), for now I am willing to see a polite emo prince who would have been better than his father, but whose judgment is an impediment too high to get past.

[Gab]

cause he's dead. the dead are usually romanticized as ultra good or evil depending on the person thinking about them

[Ygrain]

I thought Lyanna yelled out to Ned before the fighting started, but someone on a different post stated he was hallucinating and the voice he heard was one of his staff trying to wake him from his milk of the poppy daze. After reading the chapter again I had a few thoughts. if Ned, heard Lyanna at the Window how could she be there if she was later found in a pool of blood? Unless she had not given birth yet and the stress of seeing her brother and others fight caused her to go into labor? Any thoughts??

She wasn't found in a pool of blood but in a bed of blood, which means birthing bed. Bleeding is part not just of the birthing process itself but also afterbirth, going on for several weeks. If you add to it that Lyana had been feverish prior she died, and for a prolonged time as she was exhausted by the fever profoundly, the conclusion is that she had given birth some time earlier and was dying of childbed fever, infection of the birthing injuries.

The books indicate that he stopped being "normal", the moment he became focused on the prophecy.

They do none of the kind, as the moment when Rhaegar became focused on the prophecy was when he was still a child, then read something (no-one knows what) and said "it seems I must be a warrior". Whether the supposed abduction of Lyanna was driven by love, prophecy, both or yet some other factors cannot be established for now.

[Lady Hana]

She wasn't found in a pool of blood but in a bed of blood, which means birthing bed. Bleeding is part not just of the birthing process itself but also afterbirth, going on for several weeks. If you add to it that Lyana had been feverish prior she died, and for a prolonged time as she was exhausted by the fever profoundly, the conclusion is that she had given birth some time earlier and was dying of childbed fever, infection of the birthing injuries.

Good point!

[direwienerdog]

If he didn't kidnap Lyanna I wonder how the seduction went? We're they already fooling around before Harrenhal? Did Elia already know and approve?

[Anath]

Elia is the other half of an arranged marriage, we don't know that she loved her husband, for all we know she could have had more interest in Ashara or Jamie, but after reading all of the Dornish chapters they don't seem to have the same views of marriage that we have or that other parts of Westeros has. She may have had a love as well we just don't know enough to make any kind of point yet.

They hold exactly the same views of marriage like we do and other parts of Westeros do. They are just more open about paramours. Even Martin said that according to the Martells, Rhaegar's treatment of Elia was humiliating.

Nothing in the books indicates that in Dorne, it was so very common to elevate one's paramour above their spouse. I'd like it if people started making difference between the two things. Even Oberyn did not marry his beloved mistress and did not acknowledge any of his Sand daughters, although he treated them quite affectionately.

Elia might not have cared who replaced her in Rhaegar's bed but she probably cared very much that Rhaegar made her look unlikeable, ugly and unsatisfying. His actions were blows to her image and pride, no matter her personal feelings.

I really don't think people doesn't understand this. But if Elia was OK with it, that would help Rhaegar keep his nice image, so they insist that she was. Still, if Catelyn and the other noblewomen we met are any indication, Westerosi's highborn ladies did not take acknowledged bastards and mistresses thrown in their faces graciously. Why would Elia be different?

[Djinn]

Which married dornish husband acknowledges it's mistress publicly in front of his wife? In the Old Lord Yronwood vs Oberyn situation, the woman was referred to as a mistress of Yronwood not a paramour. It seems to imply that paramour and mistress aren't the same thing.

[Ser Lepus]

I cast Threadnomancy: Why do people love Rhaegar?

As I said in another thread, We have to take into account that the westerosi have very different standards than us when it come to their leaders: Daeron II the Good was a wise, learned and just man, but many people liked Daemon Blackfyre better literally because

“Daeron was spindly and round of shoulder, with a little belly that wobbled when he walked. Daemon stood straight and proud, and his stomach was flat and hard as an oaken shield. And he could fight. With ax or lance or flail, he was as good as any knight I ever saw, but with the sword he was the Warrior himself.. . .Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women whispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen...Daemon, though . . . Daemon was no more pious than a king need be, and all the great knights of the realm gathered to him...Daemon was the better man" (this is a piece from The Sworn Sword).

People thought that Daemon would be a better king because he was physically strong and attractive, and a good sword fighter, while his brother Daeron had all the traits we modern people want in our rulers, but wasn´t a strong warrior...the people who liked Robert Baratheon or Rhaegar Targayren did so for the same reasons, because they were young, attractive and strong knights. Even Ser Barristan thought that being a good warrior would make Robert a decent king.

Rhaegar seem to have been a cultured man in addition to a good knight, but I think he had a darker side: he was obsessed with prophecies, which ultimately led to his downfall (obsession with prophecies seem to be a common flaw of the Targayren) and he may have had other flaws, but said obsession (his worst flaw) was a secret, and he was a handsome strong knight, which outweighs anything else for a westerosi mindset...plus he seemed to have understanded the importance of a good public image and have exploited it.

And most important of all, Rhaegar died in his prime, while Robert lived long enough to show everybody his decadence.

[Pikachu101]

Rhaegar, Lyanna, Elia, Joanna, Ashara, Arthur etc. they're all shown in a positive light because none of us have see the real them.

Now that Ned, Cat and Robb are dead do you think people would constantly scrutinise their flaws? The same goes for all the dead characters, everyone remembers the great stuff about them not the bad.

I think my main one is Elia. We've got the impression that Rhaegar was either stupid, selfish or obsessed to the point of madness but we know nothing about the Crown Princess. Whenever someone mentions her its always something positive, same goes for Rhaegar (minus Robert) no one actually resents him

[mindchap]

They hold exactly the same views of marriage like we do and other parts of Westeros do. They are just more open about paramours. Even Martin said that according to the Martells, Rhaegar's treatment of Elia was humiliating.

Nothing in the books indicates that in Dorne, it was so very common to elevate one's paramour above their spouse. I'd like it if people started making difference between the two things. Even Oberyn did not marry his beloved mistress and did not acknowledge any of his Sand daughters, although he treated them quite affectionately.

Elia might not have cared who replaced her in Rhaegar's bed but she probably cared very much that Rhaegar made her look unlikeable, ugly and unsatisfying. His actions were blows to her image and pride, no matter her personal feelings.

I really don't think people doesn't understand this. But if Elia was OK with it, that would help Rhaegar keep his nice image, so they insist that she was. Still, if Catelyn and the other noblewomen we met are any indication, Westerosi's highborn ladies did not take acknowledged bastards and mistresses thrown in their faces graciously. Why would Elia be different?

But it's pointless to argue since we really have no idea how any of the three them felt about any of it. All we have are the reactions of loved ones, the Dornish may not have approved of anything Rhaegar did, but that doesn't mean Elia felt the same. She may have been humiliated, and she may have not cared at all. Until he tells us we just have no idea. And no one threw a bastard in Elia's face, she was dead by the time he was born and that was no where near her anyway.

[C0bR]

Ned harboring no hard feelings for Rhaegar is hardly proof of anything. Except for an obligatory Mad King, he does not harbor anything for Aerys either. The only ones he truly despise are Lannisters.

[Nami]

Now that Ned, Cat and Robb are dead do you think people would constantly scrutinise their flaws? The same goes for all the dead characters, everyone remembers the great stuff about them not the bad.

Not really. No one thinks good stuff about Joffrey

He the person was bad when alive, people will remember that after they died

[Jasta11]

Not really. No one thinks good stuff about Joffrey

He the person was bad when alive, people will remember that after they died

Yeah but Joffrey was over-the-top evil. Rheagar was obviously never like him.

I actually think he was an outwardly pretty nice guy, sort of like a Renly; young warrior prince with charisma, an easy smile, good at many things. Renly was, objectively, a traitor and an usurper, but that doesn't stop some people who were close to him from saying he was the greatest thing ever.

Rheagar's eloping with Lyanna was incredibly irresponsible, as was his unwillingness to come out and face the consequences until it was too late (and got him killed). But I think that people place the blame on the Mad King and forget/downplay his involvement because he was only present to die a heroic death. I also don't think Barristan and Jorah are great sources, as they are both yes-men. Ned not harboring hard feelings is a good point, but the guy doesn't seem to make a habit of doing so save for the Lannisters.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't know why. I still try to find it but I had no luck yet.

[Pero the first of His name]

You know how the media and the public go when a young, utterly handsome, promising celebrity that you really knew nothing about dies?

[Master Forel's Fro]

Now that Ned, Cat and Robb are dead do you think people would constantly scrutinise their flaws? The same goes for all the dead characters, everyone remembers the great stuff about them not the bad.

I agree in a way, that doesn't apply to everyone but one bad decision doesn't make a person, the whole rose thing might have being more 'I admire you' than 'i want you' sort of thing, I think Rhaegar internalised everything so he probably saw that action different to how everyone else did. Apart from those two things there is nothing else we know that shows him as a bad guy.