How Gay are You?

[karaddin]

From what I've heard 50 shades is about an abusive relationship between two really screwed up people so it isn't exactly a healthy role-model, but it's a reasonable point to make.

Sounds about what I've heard about it too, alas it's still had an impact.

Daario - that's kinda of what I was trying to get at typing on my phone before, I think a >2 person relationship where all parties are involved with all other parties will become more acceptable over time. What I meant by traditional polygamy was that one man with multiple wives model often associated with certain religious traditions - I wouldn't be surprised if that became less acceptable over time as the other becomes more so.

[mankytoes]

I think Polygamy particularly is frowned upon so one dude doesn't have 50 slave wives or something. It's still legal in parts of Africa and Middle East.

I guess 3 or 4 people mutually together in a relationship gets lumped in with that harem kind of stuff

Exactly, monogamy is stable because there's pretty much the same number of straight men and women. In practise, it tended to involve what you describe, so lots of unhappy men at the bottom rung. Post feminism, it might work better.

[Sci-2]

It seems to me like consent is the crucial issue thought. Bypassing all requirements for academic thought rigour (because this isn't an academic forum) it kind of looks self evident that some sexual practices have become more tolerated and some have become less tolerated. (Well, duh.) We are more tolerant of two adult men doing whatever they want, but less tolerant of an adult man and a fifteen year old girl. More tolerant of people who like to involve handcuffs in sex by mutual consent, by less tolerant of rape within marriage.

This is how I was looking at it. To simple note our condemnation of pedophilia and acceptance of homosexuality is to ignore the axes on which we judge these actions.

The marital rape example is the key here - we've become more interested in protecting/emancipating historically marginalized persons - women, LGBT, sex workers, and children.

And I admit it is prudishness that makes me dislike scat-porn. But that objection is different from my objection to pedophilia, as the former is personal preference and the latter is moral.

[To be clear I don't think using feces in your bed play should be illegal.]

[Weeping Sore]

To be safe, one should only perform lewd acts on feces that are 17-18 years old. Even then, can we be sure the shit is consenting?

As far as the left supporting pedophilia, there was/is an organization called NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) but to my knowledge they've never been more than extremely fringe. (Alan Ginsburg was a member) For those who can stomach it, a NAMBLA documentary exists called Chicken Hawk. It's neither explicit nor terribly sympathetic to its adult subjects.

The tricky thing about pedophiles is treating them. If their sexuality is exclusively attuned to children, that's not a crime in itself, but acting on those desires is, by definition, child rape. Any therapeutic attempt to reassign their sexual desires should be voluntary only, IMO.

ETA: We should hope that it's possible for pedophiles to achieve some kind of sexual reassignment, for their own sake and for society's. On the other hand, if such a thing were proven successful, it would be problematic for those in the LGBT community who are using the "not a choice" argument. As the ability to self-modify increases in the future, we may have to abandon the "born this way" justification.

[Sci-2]

As far as the left supporting pedophilia, there was/is an organization called NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) but to my knowledge they've never been more than extremely fringe

That's how I've always seen them. And really tolerance for the mental states that lead people to commit pedophilia has increased despite HE's apparent assertion.

Regardless it seems to me the acceptance of LGBT has little to do with generational sexual fads, and it's better to see that tolerance with the same lens we see increased tolerance/acceptance for people of varied religions outside the Judeo-Christian umbrella.

That's what I feel is the major flaw in HE's argument - a mis-identification of the moral ground on which LGBT acceptance rests.

[All-for-Joffrey]

ETA: We should hope that it's possible for pedophiles to achieve some kind of sexual reassignment, for their own sake and for society's. On the other hand, if such a thing were proven successful, it would be problematic for those in the LGBT community who are using the "not a choice" argument. As the ability to self-modify increases in the future, we may have to abandon the "born this way" justification.

I fail to see how the gender of people you're attracted is related to or connected to the age of people you're attracted to. But ok.

[Robin Of House Hill]

To be safe, one should only perform lewd acts on feces that are 17-18 years old. Even then, can we be sure the shit is consenting?

As far as the left supporting pedophilia, there was/is an organization called NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) but to my knowledge they've never been more than extremely fringe. (Alan Ginsburg was a member) For those who can stomach it, a NAMBLA documentary exists called Chicken Hawk. It's neither explicit nor terribly sympathetic to its adult subjects.

The tricky thing about pedophiles is treating them. If their sexuality is exclusively attuned to children, that's not a crime in itself, but acting on those desires is, by definition, child rape. Any therapeutic attempt to reassign their sexual desires should be voluntary only, IMO.

ETA: We should hope that it's possible for pedophiles to achieve some kind of sexual reassignment, for their own sake and for society's. On the other hand, if such a thing were proven successful, it would be problematic for those in the LGBT community who are using the "not a choice" argument. As the ability to self-modify increases in the future, we may have to abandon the "born this way" justification.

So, you want to apply the Iranian method of dealing with their gay population to pedophiles? Besides the fact that it won't work, it's just wrong.

[Weeping Sore]

So, you want to apply the Iranian method of dealing with their gay population to pedophiles? Besides the fact that it won't work, it's just wrong.

No. I said that if such a method actually existed, it should only be voluntary. And maybe it doesn't work. But I don't think it's scientifically impossible for something like that to ever work, so if the science changes, we have to be prepared with different justifications.

If you were a pedophile, wouldn't you want to be attracted to adults rather than children? Or is it just, tough shit, you are who you are, get used to either a life of zero sexual fulfillment or a life of being a child rapist?

[Robin Of House Hill]

There is a good deal of ambiguity in your use of, "sexual reassignment", when, "preference reassignment", is what you're suggesting.

So, you want to use conversion therapy? That doesn't have a good track record.

[Kat]

I'm closing this thread because it's at 400 posts. If someone wants to re-start it, you might want to do it with a first post that indicates that this has veered from the original topic a bit.