Does Cersei's trial happen? (spoilers)

[BarristonTheBAMF]

Seems from what I've read, everyone seems to think her trial is going to happen as planned. After what happens at the end of ADwD, I don't know if that will be the case...

She is at the Red Keep, having just finished dinner with Kevan and Tommen. Kevan leaves, and is murdered along with Pycelle... The two Lannister loyalists on the small council. There are no more high ranking Lannisters now alive in KL... She is the last one. This will default give her control of the Lannister household guard there, right?

I think she loses her sh*t when she finds out of her Uncle's murder, and orders the Red Keep shut. Kicks out the Septa's watching over her. Names herself as Queen Regent again(through Tommen's orders). Also has Tommen by decree name her innocent (not that the High Sparrow will be alright with that). Probably also names the Small Council invalid, fearing/thinking that the Tyrells has a hand in the murders.

From here, can go a lot of different ways... The faith can lay siege to the Keep, the Tyrells can turn on her and do the same... who knows(besides GRRM of course). I just don't see the trial happening as planned, not with the way the epilogue chapter went. I think she "channels her inner Cersei", and goes batsh*t crazy on Kings Landing.

Thoughts?

[Lady Beyond the Wall]

The faith definitely will have need of its arms that she gave back to them. And her former lover/cousin Lancel is probably going to either kill her or save her ass

[Mad Monkey]

I wouldn't be surprised if the trial gets derailed for some reason, only because we've seen so many trials by combat before (Bronn vs Vardis, Sandor vs Beric, the Mountain vs Oberyn). I don't see Cersei meekly submitting to the High Septon's authority now that she is back in the Red Keep now; she lacks the pragmatism and the detachment of Kevan Lannister, who was reluctant to wage open war against the Faith Militant.

[BarristonTheBAMF]

I don't see Cersei meekly submitting to the High Septon's authority now that she is back in the Red Keep now; she lacks the pragmatism and the detachment of Kevan Lannister, who was reluctant to wage open war against the Faith Militant.

Yup. Exactly what I'm thinking. I think things are about to get really, really crazy in KL, question for me is how far does Cersei take it? Paranoid killing spree of anyone she can get her hands on that she suspects of Kevan's murder(Including Tyrells)? Naming the High Septon a traitor or just replacing him (mind you, I don't think she can accomplish this in reality... she might have Tommen decree it but if it comes to things like this, I doubt she would have any real influence outside of the Red Keep... No credibility with the people etc). Attacking the Faith Militant at KL (Which I don't think she can do now, would have to send a desperate plea to Casterly Rock for more troops)? With her back against the wall, what is she capable of?

[Max Berg]

Seems from what I've read, everyone seems to think her trial is going to happen as planned. After what happens at the end of ADwD, I don't know if that will be the case...

She is at the Red Keep, having just finished dinner with Kevan and Tommen. Kevan leaves, and is murdered along with Pycelle... The two Lannister loyalists on the small council. There are no more high ranking Lannisters now alive in KL... She is the last one. This will default give her control of the Lannister household guard there, right?

I didn't give at her a second thought.. I admit that your idea is intriguing and it fits her character.

I think she loses her sh*t when she finds out of her Uncle's murder, and orders the Red Keep shut. Kicks out the Septa's watching over her. Names herself as Queen Regent again(through Tommen's orders). Also has Tommen by decree name her innocent (not that the High Sparrow will be alright with that). Probably also names the Small Council invalid, fearing/thinking that the Tyrells has a hand in the murders.

If she can really do it, why not? That may be exactly what Varyis was trying to accomplish. :-)

From here, can go a lot of different ways... The faith can lay siege to the Keep,

I believe it may be the case that she tries to use the newly acquired soldiers to disband the faith.

She has already learned how dangerous they are and that she can not buy their services any more, since they have gone really "faithful".

the Tyrells can turn on her and do the same... who knows(besides GRRM of course). I just don't see the trial happening as planned, not with the way the epilogue chapter went. I think she "channels her inner Cersei", and goes batsh*t crazy on Kings Landing.

Thoughts?

Tyrells may loose some of their people and definitively a lot of soldiers in their retreat, while Cersei will fight within the city against the faith and slaughter a great amount of poor folks, the Tyrell will try to move their forces back on KL to conquer it. But at this point Aegon - which should be somewhere near there - could really take advantage of the situation, because basically all the armies of westeros would have been weakened by a great extend by participating to some skirmishes..

[Fire Eater]

She will have her trial, and demand a trial by combat with Robert Strong as her champion. The HS informs her he will name Lancel as the Faith's champion in a trial by combat should she demand one, thinking that Cersei would forgo a trial by combat to avoid harm to her kin and former lover. He proves that he doesn't know Cersei, and she sees this as an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Lancel is killed by Robert Strong.

[chrisdaw]

I think she loses her sh*t when she finds out of her Uncle's murder, and orders the Red Keep shut. Kicks out the Septa's watching over her. Names herself as Queen Regent again(through Tommen's orders). Also has Tommen by decree name her innocent (not that the High Sparrow will be alright with that). Probably also names the Small Council invalid, fearing/thinking that the Tyrells has a hand in the murders.

With full faith in Robert Strong to win why would she not submit to the HS? There's nothing to lose and much to gain.

[Drexyon7]

That was my first thought too, Cersei is officially back in power with Kevan dead. (I'm not even gonna hide it I was sooo happy when i realized my crazy lion bitch was back!)

She isn't gonna submit to anything she doesn't want to. that being said she trusts Qyburn and might elect for a trial by combat knowing Robert Strong can't lose.

I find it funny that alot of people think the High Sparrow is a new player but he's in KL with two large forces that could potentially (pending the trials) have reason to decimate him and the rest of the Faith. Another strike against him is he is such a fanatic that i don't even think he cares...

[Morienthar]

The Trail will happen and she will win it.

Marge will loose hers and the break the Lannister-Tyrell alliance once and for all

[Jon of the Dead]

I think GRRM doesn't want the sh*t to hit the fan so early. For starters, we still need to see how Lady Nym and Tyene change the dynamic in KL, and both the faith and the Small council need to be relatively calm for that to happen, I think.

[355Lion]

I still dont see how the Tyrells and possibly Martells if they arrive in time or even after, will see Robert Strong and not think he is Gregor Clegane and demand to see his face. Then it would not matter if Cerci won her trial or not.

[BarristonTheBAMF]

I think GRRM doesn't want the sh*t to hit the fan so early. For starters, we still need to see how Lady Nym and Tyene change the dynamic in KL, and both the faith and the Small council need to be relatively calm for that to happen, I think.

I just can't see things not going haywire right off the bat in the WoW tho. Cersei with power and complete paranoia is a dangerous combo. I think Nym and Tyene still have big rolls to play, just not in the sense that they thought they would when they left for KL. Even if the trial for Cersei doesn't happen, the Robert Strong arc can still have meaning with the sand snakes there. They can demand to see his face and such, claiming that it must be Gregor, and if its found out to be then that can give Doran justification for backing Aegon.

[WildBlood]

Don't the Tyrells have many many more men in KL than Lannister household guards? I can see her trying this, but not succeeding. I think her tryial goes off as planned.

[SeanF]

If I had the chance of holing up in the Red Keep with several hundred loyal soldiers, I think I'd go for it.

[Vuron]

A question for everyone saying that Cersei will be back in power.... What power, exactly? (serious question).

I just don't see how she can ever be back in power. The Lannister household guard is severely outnumbered by the Gold Cloaks, the Tyrell guard, the Faith, and pretty much anybody else that picks up a sword. The Lannister guard wouldn't be able to close off the city, by itself, and she really has no way to gain the allegiance of the Gold Cloaks.

There are no Lannister supporters on the Small Council and the Tyrells certainly aren't going to allow Tommen to start issuing decrees to strip them of their power. As we saw with the decree that Robert gave Ned, anyone with the military power can choose to ignore those decrees.

The Tyrells now have control of Kings Landing and the Crown.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

I think the trial will happen and that Cersei will survive (remember the Valonqar prophecy is to come).. I cannot see Margaery also surviving simultaneously, so unfortunately (although I don't want to see this happen) I think Margaery may lose.

However, you bring a valid point with regard to Kevan. Even though there is a lack of powerful Lannisters to support her, it is in some way to her advantage and everyone else's disadvantage - once she wins her trial, she will regain power in some form or another. I cannot see anyone on the Council questioning the outcome of this trial and she will be paranoid and dangerous to boot, a classic re-run of Aerys the mad King.

The sh*t will hit the fan at some point though IMO. I suspect Robert Strong may well be unmasked as Ser Gregor Clegane, the Tyrrells will explode and be out for revenge, possibly allying with anyone they think who can take Cersei out.

I think there will need to be an element of de-stabilisation in Kings Landing though, because that could lay some fruitful ground for an assault by Aegon's forces.

[ejhawman]

:cheers: Welcome to the forums!

Bold thinking. I don't see it as inpossible, given Cersei's encroaching madness. It comes down to how far gone she is or how fast she breaks, which comes down to how fast Martin needs it to happen. He COULD play it this way, I'm just guessing things will be more drawn out.

Cersei will remain just sane enough to hold up. The trials will be delayed as the Red Keep is searched; perhaps a week or two. Eventually, however, the trials will be held, Cersei will put her faith in her champion, and he will win. Things go from there.

Will keep this in mind, however.

[BarristonTheBAMF]

A question for everyone saying that Cersei will be back in power.... What power, exactly? (serious question).

I just don't see how she can ever be back in power. The Lannister household guard is severely outnumbered by the Gold Cloaks, the Tyrell guard, the Faith, and pretty much anybody else that picks up a sword. The Lannister guard wouldn't be able to close off the city, by itself, and she really has no way to gain the allegiance of the Gold Cloaks.

There are no Lannister supporters on the Small Council and the Tyrells certainly aren't going to allow Tommen to start issuing decrees to strip them of their power. As we saw with the decree that Robert gave Ned, anyone with the military power can choose to ignore those decrees.

The Tyrells now have control of Kings Landing and the Crown.

Don't think she can close off the city, but the Red keep is a different matter. I agree her "power" will be very limited, but if she has Tommen with her and controls him, she can make decrees and try and rule through him. Whether anyone listens to those decrees outside the Red Keep would be a different matter of course.

And as far as the Tyrell guard outnumbering the Lannister guard at the Red Keep, might be true... But shes got FrankenGregor! If I remember right, Qyburn said something to the extent of "He's sworn a vow of silence until your enemies are vanquished"... Well, if Cersei sees the Tyrells as enemies(thinking they killed Kevan), what if she sets UnGergor on every Tyrell in the Red Keep? :devil: Probs won't happen, but would be great to read about UnGregor almost single handedly killing every Tyrell guard around

[A Man Has Said]

It's an intriguing notion that Cersei would go 'full Cersei' in the next book and declare herself the supreme ruler of Westeros (in Tommen's name, of course.) It's pretty true to her character.

I'm wondering though, might she become a suspect in the killing of Pycelle and Kevan?

She's been seen by several people arguing with and threatening Pycelle, and Kevan had vowed to strip her of all power, take away her influence over Tommen and send her back to Casterley Rock. So it wouldn't be a stretch for people to see her as having motive to commit those murders.

Perhaps that's what Varys had in mind?

Cersei's problem is that she isn't inherently powerful in any way.

She is the self-appointed Regent of Tommen. She can't use a sword herself, or any weapon.

All her 'power' is embodied in her ability (or not) to get people to obey her.

And then suddenly she is perceived by everyone around her as someone who will turn on even her closest allies, even family, if they dare to interfere with her in any way.

Geez, look at what she had done to poor Falyse Stokeworth.

Would you obey her after that?

[elenhay]

It's an intriguing notion that Cersei would go 'full Cersei' in the next book and declare herself the supreme ruler of Westeros (in Tommen's name, of course.) It's pretty true to her character.

I'm wondering though, might she become a suspect in the killing of Pycelle and Kevan?

She's been seen by several people arguing with and threatening Pycelle, and Kevan had vowed to strip her of all power, take away her influence over Tommen and send her back to Casterley Rock. So it wouldn't be a stretch for people to see her as having motive to commit those murders.

Perhaps that's what Varys had in mind?

I feel stupid for never having considered that Cersei would be a suspect, but it's kinda perfect. Wonder if they could add that charge to her trial by combat?