Comics VIII - the Crime Syndic8 of America

[red snow]

Via Bendis's blog:

eta:

I filled out the Iron Man issues in Gillen's run. The adopted storyline actually is kinda interesting. It doesn't work that well continuity wise but it isn't a bad idea on it's own.

It's the kind of idea they should have used with a character where it could have been plausible.

Zero Year is just getting stupid now. Green Lantern is even tying into it. We all know Batman is your best-selling title but stop being so desperate to milk it DC.

[Zappster]

It's the kind of idea they should have used with a character where it could have been plausible.

Zero Year is just getting stupid now. Green Lantern is even tying into it. We all know Batman is your best-selling title but stop being so desperate to milk it DC.

That's been the case for a while.

Way back in June: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/18/zero-year-to-crossover-into-action-comics-flash-green-arrow-green-lantern-corps-and-more/

IGN were even discussing it back in August.

In summary, it's always been stupid. As most crossovers and events tend to be. You do sometimes get little gems sprinkled in those turds though.

[Sci-2]

It's the kind of idea they should have used with a character where it could have been plausible.

Zero Year is just getting stupid now. Green Lantern is even tying into it. We all know Batman is your best-selling title but stop being so desperate to milk it DC.

I'm gonna politely disagree with Gillen choosing another character. The story can always be retconned later. While the presence of Howard Stark's real son might end up being utter shit, I'm willing to give Gillen the benefit for now.

Strangely enough, it's Young Avengers where he's still entertaining but needs to step up his game.

[red snow]

Fantastic Four by James Robinson and Leonard kirk? Not really excited about that one to be honest. I guess it could be solid but doesn't have me thinking "I wonder what crazy shit can happen there". Has Warren Ellis ever done a FF story?

Rumours are gathering momentum that a Storm solo is on the cards which is good news for posters lamenting the lack of female solo x books. Hope they have a decent hook - she never strikes me as a straight crime fighter and while the African Queen Goddess has plenty of story potential it has to be handled a bit carefully as well as avoiding black panther again. Then there's here criminal upbringing as a child which i guess could be explored.

She always strikes me as a good leader in a team book much like Cyclops.

Edit: Also happy that I decided to wait for the trade of Sandman:overture. No issue 2 until February and I can only imagine what the knock-on effect will be for future issues. Hopefully not too bad as it had a bimonthly schedule but JH williams and the detail required has me thinking he may need more time than that to turn an issue around.

[Lady Octarina]

The general plot of this "all-new" Fantastic Four seems more interesting than Fraction's, though. But has anything been said about FF, if it's also getting a relaunch or if they'll only show up in F4?

I really hope the Storm solo rumors are true. Bleeding Cool has been right more frequently than not lately, so there's that. But yeah, Africa again wouldn't be too interesting. They'll just have to build a new purpose and supporting cast for her. But you know what would be cool? A Gambit-Storm book, just the two thieves going on their adventures around the world. I really liked their friendship, a pity we've rarely seen it these days...

But she's certainly a better team-leader than Cyclops! :bowdown:

[Sci-2]

Hmmmmm....Storm's most recent example of leadership:

"As headmistress, I agree with Logan."

-BotA

Right now though I'd say only Cyke is leading mutants anywhere. The Jean Grey School's too busy fighting 12 year olds.

[red snow]

I agree that using the team to focus on celebrity is worth tackling (again) although I still feel as though Milligan had the last word on that with x-force/statix. The issue is that Johnny storm is the only one who really flirts with his celebrity status (the films actually did this quite well). I just don't think they can go as far as they need to for it to work - HT isn't going to be caught doing drugs for example. If they were real and existed in the UK they'd all be targeted, The thing would be hounded on his appearance - women would sleep with him to tell the tale to the tabloids. Susan would be followed by paparazzi for upskirt/nude photo exclusives of the invisble woman. I guess Reed would get drawn into giving his opinion on anything scientifc and be treated like a super Brian Cox (and women would be paid to try and sleep with him). Maybe it's just as well Millar didn't cover this when he worked on the title.

[mormont]

I agree that using the team to focus on celebrity is worth tackling (again) although I still feel as though Milligan had the last word on that with x-force/statix. The issue is that Johnny storm is the only one who really flirts with his celebrity status (the films actually did this quite well). I just don't think they can go as far as they need to for it to work - HT isn't going to be caught doing drugs for example. If they were real and existed in the UK they'd all be targeted, The thing would be hounded on his appearance - women would sleep with him to tell the tale to the tabloids. Susan would be followed by paparazzi for upskirt/nude photo exclusives of the invisble woman. I guess Reed would get drawn into giving his opinion on anything scientifc and be treated like a super Brian Cox (and women would be paid to try and sleep with him). Maybe it's just as well Millar didn't cover this when he worked on the title.

Typically, the FF have been seen as such a stable, mutually supportive unit that they can cope with the downside of their fame, though. And I think it's not really a very interesting line to go down to have them struggle to cope with their celebrity.

[red snow]

Typically, the FF have been seen as such a stable, mutually supportive unit that they can cope with the downside of their fame, though. And I think it's not really a very interesting line to go down to have them struggle to cope with their celebrity.

I agree they aren't the best characters to study celebrity through. Even the Human Torch is at heart mild-mannered so I don't see how much mileage Robinson can get from the concept without some dubious characterization. It would have to be out of continuity or some ultimate version.

[Lady Octarina]

Hmmmmm....Storm's most recent example of leadership:

"As headmistress, I agree with Logan."

-BotA

Right now though I'd say only Cyke is leading mutants anywhere. The Jean Grey School's too busy fighting 12 year olds.

But BotA is so bad it shouldn't even be considered canon lol

I all other books, her relationship with Logan is either, uh, adult fun in their private time, or her looking at him and asking, in kinder words, wtf is his problem.

[Sci-2]

But BotA is so bad it shouldn't even be considered canon lol

I all other books, her relationship with Logan is either, uh, adult fun in their private time, or her looking at him and asking, in kinder words, wtf is his problem.

Oh, I actually think we can probably consider everything post AvX to be possibly questionable characterization.

Though I do like Spurrier talking about his upcoming X-force series:

See, with X-Force there's a clear mandate in place (I'll come to that in a minute) and whether you or I agree with the whys and wherefores of what the team does, which is obviously going to be an overarching theme, there's never any need to contrive daft threats or dumb heroic disagreements just to catalyze The Next Fight Scene.

A man who gets how ridiculous AvX was!

In other news the tagline for one of the upcoming DC books is "Crisis of Imagination". Guess that move to Burbank put them in a confessional mood.

[red snow]

:

A man who gets how ridiculous AvX was!

In other news the tagline for one of the upcoming DC books is "Crisis of Imagination". Guess that move to Burbank put them in a confessional mood.

Were the new X- force books doing so badly they had to relaunch them? Guess it serves them right for diluting what is already a diluted concept.

If it was any other publisher than DC I'd have said "I can't beleive an Editor would ok that as a brand name" but given all the other stupid things DC have done of late I'm not even that surprised any more, It's still stupid though.

update: and they're relaunching Wolverine again. I'm honestly seeing all these "all new marvel now" books as failing books they are trying to bump with another issue 1. A bit like how any non-batbook tieing into zero year must be failing and in need of attention,

[Winterfell is Burning]

Hmmmmm....Storm's most recent example of leadership:

"As headmistress, I agree with Logan."

-BotA

Right now though I'd say only Cyke is leading mutants anywhere. The Jean Grey School's too busy fighting 12 year olds.

To compare any X-men leader with Cyclops after everything that happens from Decimation to the mutant rebirth seems like comparing Michael Schumacher to some F-3 driver (or Lebron to a NCAA player for you Americans). Specially considering that post Schism all they do is follow a mass murderer clearly driven by personal grudges.

In other news the tagline for one of the upcoming DC books is "Crisis of Imagination". Guess that move to Burbank put them in a confessional mood.

That would be like a Marvel book using as tagline "Characters without Marvel movie potential are irrelevant".

[Lady Octarina]

Not a bad week for the X-titles. All-New is a good book once again, now that BotA is over. X-Men Gold was a nostalgic party; I loved it. Wolverine was actually good, but more for the neverending tension than anything else. I didn't like Marvel Knights: X-Men. I already had some problems with the idea when it was announced (road-trippin to the middle of nowhere to investigate new mutants being murdered? The X-Men have always worked better when those rescues were made by Blackbird and more people). The plot is weak, the art is not as cool as they probably think it is, and it's very disappointing that they would go for the most obvious villain instead of trying different concepts.

Thor #15 was better than the previous issues of this arc, and Three is getting much more interesting. But Gillen should probably find a way to make the helots more compelling if he wants us to side with them instead of the spartans.

Were the new X- force books doing so badly they had to relaunch them? Guess it serves them right for diluting what is already a diluted concept.

If it was any other publisher than DC I'd have said "I can't beleive an Editor would ok that as a brand name" but given all the other stupid things DC have done of late I'm not even that surprised any more, It's still stupid though.

update: and they're relaunching Wolverine again. I'm honestly seeing all these "all new marvel now" books as failing books they are trying to bump with another issue 1. A bit like how any non-batbook tieing into zero year must be failing and in need of attention,

Probably; current Uncanny X-Force sucks in every way you can imagine. Cable and X-Force has a good cast (other than Hope) and a good concept, but its potential was never properly explored, and Larroca's art looks worse than usual (or rather, his art lately looks worse than it did years ago. Though almost good in X-Men Gold...).

If I'm not mistaken, the current Wolverine series is doing better than Iron Man and Deadpool, for example. And it seems relaunching is a necessary strategy on Marvel these days. They did promise they would keep the same creative teams for a year (=12 issues), which they have mostly done; they never said another relaunch wasn't just around the corner. But even worse than relaunching, to me, is having to give a third series to a concept just because the guy they hired to write the first one can't find the time to work on characterization in his megalomaniac books...

[red snow]

That would be like a Marvel book using as tagline "Characters without Marvel movie potential are irrelevant".

LOL

Not a bad week for the X-titles. All-New is a good book once again, now that BotA is over. X-Men Gold was a nostalgic party; I loved it. Wolverine was actually good, but more for the neverending tension than anything else. I didn't like Marvel Knights: X-Men. I already had some problems with the idea when it was announced (road-trippin to the middle of nowhere to investigate new mutants being murdered? The X-Men have always worked better when those rescues were made by Blackbird and more people). The plot is weak, the art is not as cool as they probably think it is, and it's very disappointing that they would go for the most obvious villain instead of trying different concepts.

Thor #15 was better than the previous issues of this arc, and Three is getting much more interesting. But Gillen should probably find a way to make the helots more compelling if he wants us to side with them instead of the spartans.

Probably; current Uncanny X-Force sucks in every way you can imagine. Cable and X-Force has a good cast (other than Hope) and a good concept, but its potential was never properly explored, and Larroca's art looks worse than usual (or rather, his art lately looks worse than it did years ago. Though almost good in X-Men Gold...).

If I'm not mistaken, the current Wolverine series is doing better than Iron Man and Deadpool, for example. And it seems relaunching is a necessary strategy on Marvel these days. They did promise they would keep the same creative teams for a year (=12 issues), which they have mostly done; they never said another relaunch wasn't just around the corner. But even worse than relaunching, to me, is having to give a third series to a concept just because the guy they hired to write the first one can't find the time to work on characterization in his megalomaniac books...

12 issues with Marvel is more like 8 months these days. I think Marvel should just abandon numbering and do seasons. It's what they are doing anyway I guess but if it was a formal thing I think it would stand better. Get a team in for a year then relaunch with a new arc (or team) a year later. I think they are reluctant to do this because it may damage the issue 1 sales if people knew it happened regularly. Tv shows usually get a a spike at the start of each season and also a spike for the finale if they know something big will happen. That's what Marvel is missing - the excitement of the last issue (although Spider-man did a good job)

[Sci-2]

Marvel Knights was okay. ANXM was good, a big part of that was the art. I did like how Beast and Cyclops realize they don't have to focus on one girl anymore.

For people who've read the older stuff, is the narcissism Jean has in character? Or is this a plot enforced side effect like the Phoenix breaking powers?

Specially considering that post Schism all they do is follow a mass murderer clearly driven by personal grudges.

I think at this point they aren't even trying to have [consistent] characterization. Guess they figure if people go along with AvX they'll go along with everything.

I mean ANXM. Interesting idea, but if their dying breaks reality why allow them into combat? Let them fight for the cause by making the team slushies or something. [Why would Kitty of all people be this stupid? Why would Emma/Cyclops/Magneto allow them to risk Everything?]

But even worse than relaunching, to me, is having to give a third series to a concept just because the guy they hired to write the first one can't find the time to work on characterization in his megalomaniac books...

Heh, did Hickman break up with you, kill your dog, steal your truck? Avengers was double shipping, now it's not. So there isn't really an additional series.

[Winterfell is Burning]

ANXM was good, Thor wasn't. I'm convinced that Jason Aaron simply can't do funny. He's pretty good when he's focusing on more serious stuff, but his more humorous books fall flat.

Manhattan Projects was also good, though it was more of a mid-arc issue, and I liked TWD, Rick's approach to the battle surprised me, but made sense. Three was also good, though I agree that Gillen will have to do more to make us care for the helots.

Oh, and I've read Letter 44 (which was released a few weeks ago) and I've really enjoyed it. It is something like The West Wing meets Alien, which is pretty unique.

[Little Valkyrie]

update: and they're relaunching Wolverine again. I'm honestly seeing all these "all new marvel now" books as failing books they are trying to bump with another issue 1. A bit like how any non-batbook tieing into zero year must be failing and in need of attention,

Believe it or not, the Zero Year tie-ins from non-Batbooks were on the initiative of their own writers, and things like a young bearded Ollie beating up on Killer Moth were pretty good.

[Lady Octarina]

Marvel Knights was okay. ANXM was good, a big part of that was the art. I did like how Beast and Cyclops realize they don't have to focus on one girl anymore.

For people who've read the older stuff, is the narcissism Jean has in character? Or is this a plot enforced side effect like the Phoenix breaking powers?

You know what? I can't recall, but as the token female character for years that's probably not an inaccurate portrayal. Or maybe I'm just biased by the general fandom interpretation of her (or of her part in the whole triangle with Logan).

Heh, did Hickman break up with you, kill your dog, steal your truck? Avengers was double shipping, now it's not. So there isn't really an additional series.

:lol:

He offends my sensibilities with his shitty writing.

[red snow]

Let's hope me. Octarina, Hickman and Bendis never wind up sharing a table at a bar :) I hate Bendis with the same passion she does Hickman.

Evidence of my Bendis hate is "when has past characterization meant anything to Bendis wrt Jean"? I'd rather have mythic characterization of the Avengers by Hickman than flat out off characterization. Plus, I've felt that Thor, Hyperion, Shang Chi, Sunspot and Cannonball (although I never noticed they were so in wuv before) and Superior Spider-man have all been good. It's just Cap, Iron Man, Spider worman and Captain Marvel that fall flat but I find those characters dull anyhow.

I'm really enjoying Hickman's Avengers because it gives the illusion of importance and something epic happening even though I know it will all be done as soon as he leaves the books. I'm also amazed at how consistent the art in both Avengers books are (within each title that is) - I think it's largely due to the colourist in which case he deserves equal credit with the inkers as I cold barely recognise Deodata's usual style in the issues he penned (unless he's changed style?). Anyway I'm impressed and considering I've been reading several issues in a row the art changes really are seamless.