Comics VIII - the Crime Syndic8 of America

[Nictarion]

Not enough Image love on this thread. Anybody been reading Sheltered or Ghosted? I've liked the first few issues of both.

[red snow]

Not enough Image love on this thread. Anybody been reading Sheltered or Ghosted? I've liked the first few issues of both.

There is but we usually have to wait for an issue of Saga, Manhattan Projects/east is west or TWD for us to talk about it. I quite likes me some "lazarus" and "Ten Grand". Not sure how Ten Grand is going to survive the artist change though which is a case where I understand them carrying on without but damn was Niles esential to that comic working.

You do have a point that because Image titles are all individual titles it's hard for them to drum up the kind of discussion and news cycle that MArvel and DC can.

[Lady Octarina]

Marvel is always insisting on the same characters no matter how many times they're cancelled. How many times has that happened to Punisher, Elektra and Ghost Rider? Silver Surfer was last popular, what, in the 80's? And he's back (though, admittedly, at least the art will look cool, with all of Allred's insanity). Iron Patriot - good, some diversity, but last time they gave Rhodey a solo, even using "Iron Man" in the title, it was a failure. And when would anyone think Hawkeye would be the success it is now? Yet they gave the character a chance. It's hard for me to believe that they so rarely get a good pitch for a less popular character, which always seem to be their justification whenever asked why X or y don't have their own series.

Then there are the X-characters, who, apart from Wolverine (and Deadpool, perhaps), they seem to think only work in team books. Any character can have good solo adventures if the right elements are added. For me, the most recent Gambit solo failed both because that story was a repeat of what we've seen countless times before and lacked special X-guests (think of the Wolverine books, how they work much better when recognizable characters, other than Sabretooth, show up instead of just having someone retell the same samurai stories until the end of days).

Anyway, people who know more of DC than me: I've read some of the New 52 Wonder Woman and hated it. What older runs/volumes would you recommend?

Not enough Image love on this thread. Anybody been reading Sheltered or Ghosted? I've liked the first few issues of both.

I've been reading Sheltered, and while I found #1 very promising, the story is going in a direction that holds little interest for me. The Walking Dead is the same, that book shouldn't be going on for so long; I might just give up if nothing interesting enough happens in the next few issues. I liked the first issue of Three, and Sex Criminals.

Saga, Lazarus, Satellite Sam and Manhattan Projects are all on my "to read" list. Is Ghosted good, then? I don't even know what is it about.

[Nictarion]

Marvel is always insisting on the same characters no matter how many times they're cancelled. How many times has that happened to Punisher, Elektra and Ghost Rider? Silver Surfer was last popular, what, in the 80's? And he's back (though, admittedly, at least the art will look cool, with all of Allred's insanity). Iron Patriot - good, some diversity, but last time they gave Rhodey a solo, even using "Iron Man" in the title, it was a failure. And when would anyone think Hawkeye would be the success it is now? Yet they gave the character a chance. It's hard for me to believe that they so rarely get a good pitch for a less popular character, which always seem to be their justification whenever asked why X or y don't have their own series.

Then there are the X-characters, who, apart from Wolverine (and Deadpool, perhaps), they seem to think only work in team books. Any character can have good solo adventures if the right elements are added. For me, the most recent Gambit solo failed both because that story was a repeat of what we've seen countless times before and lacked special X-guests (think of the Wolverine books, how they work much better when recognizable characters, other than Sabretooth, show up instead of just having someone retell the same samurai stories until the end of days).

Anyway, people who know more of DC than me: I've read some of the New 52 Wonder Woman and hated it. What older runs/volumes would you recommend?

I've been reading Sheltered, and while I found #1 very promising, the story is going in a direction that holds little interest for me. The Walking Dead is the same, that book shouldn't be going on for so long; I might just give up if nothing interesting enough happens in the next few issues. I liked the first issue of Three, and Sex Criminals.

Saga, Lazarus, Satellite Sam and Manhattan Projects are all on my "to read" list. Is Ghosted good, then? I don't even know what is it about.

Saga is an absolute must read, its one of my favorite books right now. Lazarus has also been good. Also Fatale, and East of West are really good. I've liked Ghosted so far, its about a rich collector of occult type items, who has a master theif broken out of prison to steal a ghost from a haunted house for him. Other Image titles I'm reading are TWD, Spawn, Bedlam, Chin Music, Ten Grand, Thief of Thieves, Sheltered. I think Image has officially taken over as my favorite. Vertigo has some good books right now to, The Wake, and Trillium have been good so far. As far as Marvel, All New X-Men, X-Men, & Uncanny X-Men. For DC, Batman is really been good to, Scott Synder & Greg Capullo are currently my favorite team.

I have Nowhere Men & Manhattan Projects on my "to read" list.

[Ouroboros]

Marvel is always insisting on the same characters no matter how many times they're cancelled. How many times has that happened to Punisher, Elektra and Ghost Rider? Silver Surfer was last popular, what, in the 80's? And he's back (though, admittedly, at least the art will look cool, with all of Allred's insanity). Iron Patriot - good, some diversity, but last time they gave Rhodey a solo, even using "Iron Man" in the title, it was a failure. And when would anyone think Hawkeye would be the success it is now? Yet they gave the character a chance. It's hard for me to believe that they so rarely get a good pitch for a less popular character, which always seem to be their justification whenever asked why X or y don't have their own series.

Hawkeye had an ongoing as early as three years before the Fraction run (Hawkeye Blindspot and Solo Avengers: Hawkeye, both were forgettable). This is not his first run in ten years, let alone ever. The main reason this one was successful where as the last ones were failures is pretty much due to the Avengers film more than anything else. So using him as an example of giving a lesser known character a shot and it paying off doesn't quite work. In comparison Silver Surfer hasn't had a shot at a solo series in years, and doesn't have the publicity of a big feature film to back it up. And even though Fraction's Hawkeye is a 'success' it still isn't pulling ridiculously good numbers. It is only doing 'respectably' well.

Then there are the X-characters, who, apart from Wolverine (and Deadpool, perhaps), they seem to think only work in team books. Any character can have good solo adventures if the right elements are added. For me, the most recent Gambit solo failed both because that story was a repeat of what we've seen countless times before and lacked special X-guests (think of the Wolverine books, how they work much better when recognizable characters, other than Sabretooth, show up instead of just having someone retell the same samurai stories until the end of days).

This is also extremely debatable, especially since despite its cancellation Gambit did better numbers and ran longer than they were expecting. The fact is that in the 90s and early 2000s Marvel tried to launch a lot of very different X-characters into solo properties and even when the comics scene was better than it is now a lot of these characters (who were otherwise considered quite popular on team books or popular in general) crashed and failed, from characters as diverse as Jubilee and Nightcrawler, they just weren't selling.

There -is- an element to a character that, for whatever reason, makes them good for a team book but ill suited for a solo title. I'm not articulate enough to quantify what that element is, but it is a thing that is noticeable in success and failures of the past.

[salinea]

This is also extremely debatable, especially since despite its cancellation Gambit did better numbers and ran longer than they were expecting.

James Asmus' Gambit? Source? (Mostly because I thought it was a good run, and I'm happy if it turned out successful despite its cancellation).

[red snow]

I have the first trade of Fatale to read but haven't got around to it. Prophet is fascinating but it doesn't have me hooked to the point I have to read the next trade (although I'm sure I will). Same goes for American Vampire, I thought the first trade was great but it's a case of finding the time and it may be as fun to read once it's all done.

I think for the solo books they really need to establish a good rogues gallery. Wolverine already had several villains attached before he even set out. The problem with a lot of the launched solo books is that there's not much going on to properly define them.

[Ouroboros]

James Asmus' Gambit? Source? (Mostly because I thought it was a good run, and I'm happy if it turned out successful despite its cancellation).

When it was first launched in his first CBR interview Asmus himself gave it six, maybe seven issues before the axe, so in the last interview he gave he and the team were very happy to say it do a bit more than that. Still not an unqualified success, just better than expected.

[red snow]

When it was first launched in his first CBR interview Asmus himself gave it six, maybe seven issues before the axe, so in the last interview he gave he and the team were very happy to say it do a bit more than that. Still not an unqualified success, just better than expected.

And it was Marvel Then as well. The problem is that Gambit was most popular while the 90s cartoon was on. By around 2005 writers had already ruined him by turning him into a horseman of the apocalypse and other nonsense.

[salinea]

Thanks!

[Nictarion]

I have the first trade of Fatale to read but haven't got around to it. Prophet is fascinating but it doesn't have me hooked to the point I have to read the next trade (although I'm sure I will). Same goes for American Vampire, I thought the first trade was great but it's a case of finding the time and it may be as fun to read once it's all done.

I think for the solo books they really need to establish a good rogues gallery. Wolverine already had several villains attached before he even set out. The problem with a lot of the launched solo books is that there's not much going on to properly define them.

Fatale and American Vampire are two of my favorites right now.

[red snow]

Fatale and American Vampire are two of my favorites right now.

I should read Fatale as I've enjoyed that writer/artist team-up for a long time. It's on the to do list.

Snyder is one of those writers where I really shouldn't read his interviews as they annoy me while I actually like his work. The wake has been pretty good so far as well although I should have probably just bought the trade. It's a bit like the abyss

[Zappster]

There is but we usually have to wait for an issue of Saga, Manhattan Projects/east is west or TWD for us to talk about it. I quite likes me some "lazarus" and "Ten Grand". Not sure how Ten Grand is going to survive the artist change though which is a case where I understand them carrying on without but damn was Niles esential to that comic working.

You do have a point that because Image titles are all individual titles it's hard for them to drum up the kind of discussion and news cycle that MArvel and DC can.

Templesmith was on Ten Grand.

[red snow]

Templesmith was on Ten Grand.

Ah, sorry. Easy mistake with Templesmith and Niles been the "30 days" team that first made me aware of his talent. I honestly rate his art over the writing on most of his projects. That or his style forces writers to pick his style (I can imagine Warren Ellis doing this).

I hope whatever the reasons for Templesmith's problems are it doesn't result in us not seeing any more of his work for a while.

[Sci-2]

New Avengers was really good. I like how Infinity is ultimately a tiny part of a bigger problem.

Avengers was good, but I'd have liked to have had more sacrifice to bring about the particular entity's aid.

Battle for the Atom Part 7 was good for a series that is way too decompressed.

Justice League was good minus the scene with Green Lantern, wish we'd seen more psychological prisons but his felt cliched and corny -> Young men of color can't resist their violent impulses! Oh noes!

[Little Valkyrie]

Anyway, people who know more of DC than me: I've read some of the New 52 Wonder Woman and hated it. What older runs/volumes would you recommend?

New 52 Wondy is very different from any past runs; I dislike some parts of the mythos, and like other parts a lot. But Wondy runs...

Well, depending on your tolerance for older comics, do go read some of the Golden Age Marston stuff, it has a lot of charm. And bondage. In terms of more modern stuff, Perez did a lot, and Jimenez is very Perez-y. People like Rucka's, but I think it got cut short. Avoid Heinberg/Picoult and anything 'Amazons Attack'. The first arc of Simone's isn't bad, but it goes downhill. Byrne's is bad, Messner-Loebs is dull (but his Doctor Fate, starring Inza, is shockingly good).

Avengers: I hate everything about this incarnation of Captain Universe so much.

I will be very impressed if Hickman manages to tie together the Builder and Thanos plots in a logical and elegant way.

Battle of the Atom is Age of Ultron-class pointless and awful.

[Winterfell is Burning]

HAWKGUY IS BACK, BRO! YAY! The issue basically ties together all the previous issues since the death of Grills.

NA and Avengers were also good, the former moreso, with my favorite part being Thanos somewhat amused by the Illuminati's exploits.

Battle of the Atom was just awful and pointless as expected.

I don't remember reading anything else worth of note.

[Lady Octarina]

This was a very weak Wednesday. I was surprised to see A+X was the best book of the week, with both Cyclops and Cap acting like idiots and making me feel bad for a Skrull, and Emma being written better than she has ever since Gillen left Uncanny X-Men.

Battle of the Atom is still a pointless mess. Seriously, the dialogue is as relevant at that of the tracksuit gang over in Hawkguy; it's like those characters keep repeating the same things over and over again for I don't even know how many issues, when there's so much potential for good character interaction in that cast. And it's kind of confusing that

the rules of time travel don't apply to the O5 when just at the beginning of this event present Cyclops disappeared when younger Cyclops nearly died

. Bendis should decide what kind of rules he's actually using in this story. :bang:

New Avengers had me for the first time almost enjoying a Builder, instead of feeling like breaking something whenever one is on-panel. But this book is getting harder to enjoy when my favorite character barely has a line and is always portrayed like a weakling. We get that you hate Strange, Hickman, but at least pretend he's as important to your story as the others. It's kind of ridiculous how the Ex Nihilo took that thing from his head and they all just jump to a different subject instead of even fleetingly thinking about that. I mean, sure, they're all jerks, I don't expect them to be concerned about their team-mate's health, but when it was mentioned the guy was being mind-controlled, well, that's something they should worry about, what kind of things whoever this enemy is has done/found out that way. Even if the storyline is directed to them regretting being so blind, which could be the case with Thanos attacking Wakanda and all, it's still incredibly stupid for the brains on that team.

And then, at "Avengers", we get an actual deus ex machina. Really brilliant storytelling, I never cease to be amazed at Hickman's genius.

Sheltered, Hawkeye, Cable and X-Force, Superior Spider-Man and GotG were all good issues.

New 52 Wondy is very different from any past runs; I dislike some parts of the mythos, and like other parts a lot. But Wondy runs...

Well, depending on your tolerance for older comics, do go read some of the Golden Age Marston stuff, it has a lot of charm. And bondage. In terms of more modern stuff, Perez did a lot, and Jimenez is very Perez-y. People like Rucka's, but I think it got cut short. Avoid Heinberg/Picoult and anything 'Amazons Attack'. The first arc of Simone's isn't bad, but it goes downhill. Byrne's is bad, Messner-Loebs is dull (but his Doctor Fate, starring Inza, is shockingly good).

Thanks! I'll search for those.

[red snow]

Caught up on some uncanny avengers. The last few episodes feel like they are getting too bogged down in the apocalypse twins and essentially it's feeling too much like a continuation of uncanny x-force. A petty complaint considering I liked that book but i enjoyed the red skull story more. I think i'd also enjoy red onslaught when they get back to it. The constant bickering is annoying - given the things wolverine has done in the past, i think Cap's response was OTT and the conversations about "mutant" were very obviously Remender having a conversation with himself to defend his stance on his "call me Alex, speech" with Rogue and Wanda serving as puppets.

I do like his take on Sunfire though and how he intentionally makes Beast out to be a dick as opposed to inadvertently by Bendis.

[Sci-2]

So far I've only read Young Avengers.

Gillion managed to salvage the changes to Loki he's forced to make due to the movies.

Beyond that, I liked Prodigy's role here though this issue seemed strangely rushed for all the dialogue.